Acceptable behaviour in races

[steve]

I've done 2 races - the Bakwena and 94.7 - Bakwena was fine, no problem, but I was appalled by the poor road behaviour of most riders I saw on the 94.7. The concept of keeping left was out the window and people suddenly deciding to stop was, in my opinion, extremely dangerous.

 

I started at 9:00 am and quite frankly I think mtb races are more fun and safer.

 

[porky]

Yes, my wife will maybe (it depends how she feels on the day) ride two events a year (and I may add NEVER / EVER trains inbetween)the 94.7 and the Argus, as a result she usually starts in the last batch and I usually worry like crazy because to me the riders here cycle in a dangerous manner, but when I ask "was it dangerous?,  were you nervous?" she always says "NO why it was fine, great actually?" and looks at me as if I am crazy.

 

So I think its "perception" more than anything else, as far as these cyclists are concerned its quite normal and they just carry on and enjoy the event, but to you and me maybe its just plain chaos.

 

As far as apologising gos, "get real" never gonna happen in a road event, too much testosterone,adrenalin and ego involved, but from my experience in MTB folkwill stop and say "hey sorry man, let me help you up."

 

 

[mrmed]

Coming from an MTB background' date=' it does take a certain amount of skill to ride in a bunch on the road and even more skill to bunny hop over fallen riders especially when you don't have any suspension to cushion your landing.

But I suppose your actions will differ whether you are an elite rider gunning for a win or a middle to back of the pack rider out for a Sunday jaunt.


[/quote']

 

Thug, it is extremely bad manners to bunny hop over a fallen cyclist. What happens if they've had a heart attack? You should always make sure both your front and back wheels roll over the tar munchers (sorry slowpoke) chest to start those chest compressions we hear are so important.

[boeing]

I kinda have to agree with marc. Crashing is part of the sport and a race is a race. That said, I do feel that however there are way too many inexperienced riders being allowed to cycle with the higher echelons of the sport. During the 2005 Argus I was taken out 20 Km into the race by the guy in front of me (He clipped the wheel in front and pulled hard on the brakes bringing himself down with 10-20 others) This nut then got back on his bike without looking behind him. I feel here the person could have apologised, but basically in cycling you have to watch out for yourself (Don't overlap wheels etc)

[vulgar]

Overlapping- Happened to me, We were going up Hellshoogte, I got out the saddle moved (what you do climbing out off the saddle)my bicycle to the leftside, the guy in the front did excactly the same(getting out the saddle) just he moved to the right!!!! Bingo, we had an overlap of wheels,I fell,another rider t-boned me in the Ribs landing ontop of me. I didnt even remember falling. I got up collected my waterbottles and rode for dear life to catch the bunch.I think its better not to look back when an accident happens behind you even if you were touched by a falling partie,keep ur line and dont endanger  the others.

 I was bleeding out my elbow, knee and the worst part my Hip!!! I caught the guy who fell ontop off me, said i was sorry. 10km later we caught the $-group.I  Rode up to the rider whos wheel i touched and said,"sorry it was my fault" He instantly replied that he was sorry and asked if i was o.k.

 

What i want to say here is I was in the wrong, I did not expect that the rider infront off me should have stopped.Freak accidents like that happen. ,after the race we all three had a coke toghether and i left for the medical tent were they brushed the  tar and gravel out my arm...P.S still got 2nd in bunch sprint to come 5th overall beating Hoffman and Impey... Rabie,Lill,white,thomas and then me.(Burger)

 

[Robodog]

 

Yes' date=' my wife will maybe (it depends how she feels on the day) ride two events a year (and I may add NEVER / EVER trains inbetween)the 94.7 and the Argus, as a result she usually starts in the last batch and I usually worry like crazy because to me the riders here cycle in a dangerous manner, but when I ask "was it dangerous?,  were you nervous?" she always says "NO why it was fine, great actually?" and looks at me as if I am crazy.

 

So I think its "perception" more than anything else, as far as these cyclists are concerned its quite normal and they just carry on and enjoy the event, but to you and me maybe its just plain chaos.

[/quote']Having ridden at the back a few times - when my fiance was still a newbie - I can tell you that there is no such thing as a bunch back there. They all give each other tons of space to swerve around in and they are all going roughly the same pace. We view it as chaos because usually if we're at the back we're passing through them at twice their speed and that's when it becomes dangerous.

 

Back OT:

slowpoke, what all the guys are trying to tell you is that k@k happens in a bunch. The girl who swung wide didn't mean to take you out - she was probably trying to save her own neck at the time - going wider than the bunch anticipating those in front going wider too around the obstacle. She wouldn't have expected an overtake. Apologising: yeah, maybe she owed you one... but I haven't ever witnessed an apology at the scene before unless the cause of the accident went down too. Usually it's the "never looking back" card that gets played.

 

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that you learnt a lesson and hopefully will avoid such situations in the future. Like driving a car - always expect everyone to be idiots and that they may change lanes at any point without any indication.

 

[slowpoke]

slick, my approach is to rather simply not bother to do any big events - there are too many idiots out there. what is the point if, having had a mechanical issue, you can't risk overtaking even if you do go extremely wide because of the chances of some idiot veering miles further than they need to without bothering to even glance behind. that is the point i'm making - if i'd been passing close by and she'd bumped me then it woulda been 99% or more my fault and "tough sh*t" to me, but i was apparently very wide of the bunch and according to the witnesses she just made a typical newbie type over-reaction manouvre and i paid the price for her lack of ability. not something i plan to repeat - i'll rather just stay away from peeps who don't know how to ride

[Robodog]

I remember an eventful H2H back in 2002. I was late for the start of the A bunch and only just got amongst the stragglers going up to Silverball. Took me a couple of kms to chase down the 2nd group. I then led the charge to catch the main group which I eventually did (on my own) about 10km past the Lido. I must say I was feeling great and stayed that way all the way to Vereeniging.

 

Unfortunately going though one of those small traffic circles the two guys in front and one on the inside of me went wide avoiding something. We all managed to brake from about 35km/h to a stop on the outside of the circle - and no one went down thanks to the skill and anticipation of all involved.

 

Of course I was still feeling strong so I chased down the group over the next 3kms. With 1km to go I got myself into a good possie for the sprint - which in my mind was the wheel of my good friend greatwhite. Unfortunately it was a rare day indeed and he didn't have any legs left for the sprint and I didn't get a leadout. But 'twas fun anyway.

 

[Robodog]

 

slick' date=' my approach is to rather simply not bother to do any big events - there are too many idiots out there. what is the point if, having had a mechanical issue, you can't risk overtaking even if you do go extremely wide because of the chances of some idiot veering miles further than they need to without bothering to even glance behind. that is the point i'm making - if i'd been passing close by and she'd bumped me then it woulda been 99% or more my fault and "tough sh*t" to me, but i was apparently very wide of the bunch and according to the witnesses she just made a typical newbie type over-reaction manouvre and i paid the price for her lack of ability. not something i plan to repeat - i'll rather just stay away from peeps who don't know how to ride[/quote']Fair enough

 

[greatwhite]

slick' date=' my approach is to rather simply not bother to do any big events - there are too many idiots out there. what is the point if, having had a mechanical issue, you can't risk overtaking even if you do go extremely wide because of the chances of some idiot veering miles further than they need to without bothering to even glance behind. that is the point i'm making - if i'd been passing close by and she'd bumped me then it woulda been 99% or more my fault and "tough sh*t" to me, but i was apparently very wide of the bunch and according to the witnesses she just made a typical newbie type over-reaction manouvre and i paid the price for her lack of ability. not something i plan to repeat - i'll rather just stay away from peeps who don't know how to ride[/quote']

 

Very cynical approach, but I understand that when you're full of roasties. Give it time and I think you'll find you'll back giving it a go soon enough. The accident you describe is certainly unusual and lightning doesn't often strike the same place twice.

[slowpoke]

greatwhite, oct 2006 to date and i haven't changed my mind. it's not worth the risk. it's not like i'm ever gonna get close to the podium so what am i putting myself at risk for? i'd rather focus on getting out and enjoying my bike on fun training rides (and hopefully fun will soon include 140-160km rides again). at most i'll look at doing stuff like panorama tour, the jock and audax events - the peeps who do those at least know how to ride.

[widget]

greatwhite' date=' oct 2006 to date and i haven't changed my mind. it's not worth the risk. it's not like i'm ever gonna get close to the podium so what am i putting myself at risk for? i'd rather focus on getting out and enjoying my bike on fun training rides (and hopefully fun will soon include 140-160km rides again). at most i'll look at doing stuff like panorama tour, the jock and audax events - the peeps who do those at least know how to ride.[/quote']

 

Yah, I dont think its a cynical view - I have the same opinion myself as I said previously.

 

I have a spinal and a cervical fusion, but been a bit hard headed at the time, I used to race every event I could find, then at the 2004 lost City race I was involved in a massive pile up, fortunately my fusions held but I had a few "concerned days" in the hospital neuro surgery ward.

 

Now Days theres "NO FREAKING WAY" I will risk a crash because some idiot takes my wheel out in a small of no consequence race - a  bad crash, a cyclist riding over me could put me in a wheel chair for the rest of my life - NO WAY - not gonna happen.

 

These days I only race VETS bunch (at least its fairly safe as far as handeling skills go) and in events that have full or at least partial road closure,.........of course thats not to say you cant crash in the major events (I did in the recent 94.7) but the risk is much lower - all I sustained was a few grazes - and you can usually take some kind of evasive action - as I did - to lessen the blow.

 

Naaah, slow poke I agree with you - I shall leave the "kamakazes" to themselves.

 

[The Convert]

Sounds good to me, especially the last part.

[greatwhite]

[quote name=widget

 

Naaah' date=' slow poke I agree with you - I shall leave the "kamakazes" to themselves.

 

[/quote]

 

With that I totally agree - when you can......it appears the slowpoke was trying to 'leave the "kamakazes" to themselves.'

 

Also, if you are riding vets, the chances are that the "kamakazes" should be on your back wheel (if at all), not the other way around.

 

BTW the last crash I had in a road race was in the vets bunch - their skills are better, but the margin for error is also smaller, 'cause everyone rides so much tighter. Look at the TDF - the number of crashes/km riden is probably higher than in Vets racing and those are the 'elite'.

 

I guess what I'm saying is an accident can happen anywhere. That you won't partake in an events because of the "kamakazes" which you should be ahead of anyway is crazy. Events are generally the safest place for cyclist, it's on the road training session with taxis and other intolerant road users you are likely to have the worst accidents. You must be risking the roads regulalry (and the worst accidents) to get fit enough to ride vets. nuff said

 

 

[widget]

Heeeeeey, greatwhite, dont be so defensive.

 

I have been racing "vets 40 plus" for 8 years now, (Gary Benekes club) this year it will be Vets 50 plus, rest assured, in small events where there is a mass start you will find the "squirrels" everywhere, jumping around in the bunch, weaving in and out and generally upsetting the stability.

Even if they only stay there for 20 / 30 / 40kms its really scary, for me anyway.

 

I am used to the comments "you ride on the road so........." - "you cant live in a bubble......................" "crashes can happen anywhere............." and so on - of course I agree, theres risks everywhere, but I reduce my risks where I can, I dont invite reckless behaviour in my vicinity and I dont fly UNITED AIRLINES (9/11 ISSUE)

 

Personally, I dont have issues riding / training on the road, I dont train in big groups, so I either fly solo  or its just me and my training partner.

I am seldom nervous on the road on my own and find we are almost always accepted as part of the moving traffic because we obey the rules of the road, make ourselves visible with lights etc and are courtious and friendly to other road users.

 

Actually in all the years training on the road daily, I can only recall one or two incidents of reckless behaviour which threatened my ride, however I cant really say the same about small events / races.

 

 

[greatwhite]

I agree that the training accidents seem to be less previlent. Personally I've hit a car once and been hit by one once. In both cases I was VERY lucky because I was able to take some corrective action before the impact.

 

That said I was nearly hit by a BMW doing, I guess, 100km/h 2 weeks ago when the driver jumped a red light - that would have been tickets for me. Those are the big ones that scare the life out of me. I've been there when cyclists have been taken out by vehicles - bunch crashes are a joke by comparison.

 

And defensive......No, not really - just trying to get folks to see outside the box of 1 bad expereince which unlikely ever to be repeated.