widget Posted January 28, 2008 Share All this still stems from denying basic human rights from the offset. If the previous regime had treated everyone equally we would not be sitting with the problems we have now will we?A bit like selling my car on the brink of engine failure and telling the you that it's been running fine' date=' and not had a day off trouble with it...[/quote'] It has been 14 YEARS for crying out loud - sure the previous regime has to account for poverty, unemployment etc.. but you surely cant blame the previous regime for the culture of violence, corruption and disregard for human rights which have emerged since 94 So there was wrong 14 years ago, lets extract retribution on anybody we can and wrong them now.? Is that your attitude eezymiles.? Tit for Tat, an eye for an eye.!! Then, we are no closer to reconcilliation and heaing the wounds of the past than we were 14 years ago.! .................and I believe complaining DOS help, certainly sitting on your butt and saying nothing leads one to believe all is well, making your voice heard loud and clear allows others to join and the more voices, the louder the message. widget2008-01-28 07:29:52 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linnega Posted January 28, 2008 Share I'm now really starting to get fed up with this bitching and moaning about the state of the country! To begin with' date=' the people who are now in power were given an F!@%# up country to start off with that was on the brink of a civil war. Now I agree that we are not doing fantastic right now, but bitching and moaning does not solve anything. Tell yourself enough times that you are no good, and you'll start believing it. I guess it's time to dust yourself off.. pick up your bike and ride it...[/quote'] Lets take a little step bakc and analyze that. Pre-referendum the the country was on the brink of civil war, although under the old regime we can't exactly call society normal. However, after the referendum, white voters of this country voted overwhelmingly to begin the process of handing over power to all people of South Africa. An interim parliament was then set up to allow for a smooth transition. So by the time the ANC took control, the threat of civil had long since disappeared. Lets look at the electricity situation as a microcosm of the state of South Africa. You can argue that it is a sensationalised example, but the state of health, the ANC hierarchy, the battle against AIDS, deterioration of the transport systems, failure to adequately administer most sporting codes etc are all similar examples. When power was handed over the new government resolved to declare that electricity was a basic human right and everyone should have it. The rollouts were ambitious and most were not properly achieved. Industrial growth was budgeted at 3-6% and we have generally achieved the lower end of that growth rate. So despite not achieving the planned level of rollouts on a domestic level and the industrial growth hoped for, we managed to get into a situation where we are unable to cope with the growth in demand. Imagine what would have happened if we had efficient state departments that had achieved the domestic rollouts and we had a stable government that instilled confidence in the international community that encouraged direct foreign investment (which usually involves big machinery and a heavy electricity load). It is very difficult to be positive and be honest at the same time. Personally I am tired of defending this country. Many who have emigrated look for opportunities to criticise what they have left behind - obviously it reinforces the decision they have already made. I have tried to argue that there is much to be positive about, but besides some great looking paperwork that set great ideals, nothing has been achieved in 13 years. I don't have an answer for the ex-pats any more. Democracy has failed in this country, as it has in most countries. But, I believe it will always fail here where the old regime left this country with a mass of uneducated people that cannot be expected to make a reasonable judgment when they mark their X at election time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfm1 Posted January 28, 2008 Share eezymiles' date=' EXCUSE ME?!?!?!??!?!?!?! so just because she is white she should "just accept" being treated the way she was and being charged with fraud?!?!?!??!?!?!??!?!?! you saying we should all just accept being robbed, raped and murdered?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!? you poor poor person thinking this way![/quote'] Obviously, I was not referring to the above post, but to the startup thread. Yes, it is sad that the above incident occurred, but no different to 20 years ago when you were minding your own business and got your sorry ass thrown in jail for being at the wrong place at the wrong time.Also, I do not recall mentioning race in any of my posts?? Anyway, I think that turning a bike forum into a political forum just is not right. If you want to voice your opinion, then take your time to voice it in the newspapers where everyone has an opportunity to read it and not some priviliged minority on the hub... My,my,my, how quickly the surpressed, become the supressor, and then blame the previous surpressors for them now doing the same, hence they manage to avoid accountability, for the minute they don't like a comment, or when they are forced into a corner, out comes the race card, how weak, how sad and how pathetic, maybe you should go into politics, you seem to have the knack, make comments, and the minute you need to account for what you've done, you can just shout, RACIST, and then join goverment and collect yet another bonus for not doing your job. I the meantime those who need it most will continue to suffer even more because you did not do your job, but then your not resposible, you've only had 13 years to F%$ck things up even further, and when we point that out, then you can call me yet again a RASICT, because in doing so you don't have to accept responsibility for any of your actions. PLEASE Eezymiles, grow up, and be grow beyond the past, its only as and when we all start accepting responsibility that things will get better, I did so, I voted YES in 1991, realizing that I might not like the consequences of my decision, but still accepting that it was my responsibility to make a change. I you dont, all that will happen is that history will repeat it self, with you being guilty of gross human rights violations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyOwl Posted January 28, 2008 Share Linnega DFM1, you guys hit the nail on the head. Perfectly put... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canaris Posted January 28, 2008 Share OKAY everybody,repeat after me This is MY problem, and I will take responsibility for it and work to find MY solution. Blaming, moaning and finger pointing will not change the problem, but probable make it worse. so what is YOUR problem, and what is YOUR solution, what are you doing about it. as I said elsewhere, activism starts with yourself. (ps the ANC would never have taken power if it was not a few brave men , like Mandela, Slovo, Hani, who took ownership of the solution and took a risk and did something) (ps Microsoft would not have succeeded had Gates not taken a risk and done something) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
widget Posted January 28, 2008 Share Sometimes I just wonder why SA should be any differant to the begging bowl of poverty, starvation, tribal war, genocide, gross human rights violations, corruption and nepotism - that is the rest of Africa.? The apple never falls far from the tree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canaris Posted January 28, 2008 Share Sometimes I just wonder why SA should be any differant to the begging bowl of poverty' date=' starvation, tribal war, genocide, gross human rights violations, corruption and nepotism - that is the rest of Africa.? The apple never falls far from the tree.[/quote'] because there are people out there that believe that SA should NOT be the same as the begging bowl of poverty, starvation, tribal war, genocide, gross human rights violations, corruption and nepotism - that is the rest of Africa.and are doing there best to stop it from happeningKonaFan2008-01-28 08:15:25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
widget Posted January 28, 2008 Share Hmmm, I am with you Konafan, but some issues are bigger than you and I, some issues cant be resolved with a nice platitude and a few positive words on a white paper, too much anger, too much guilt, too much resentment. I am all for starting small and doing what you can, but I really fear we are too late my friend, to late!. widget2008-01-28 08:21:23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndreZA Posted January 28, 2008 Share I like the new South Africa. We have a problem for every solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big H Posted January 28, 2008 Share Julle maak my rerig bang..... ek weet Dirty Rider dink ek mag nie kommentaar lewer nie want ek bly nie meer daar nie, my kinders bly darem nog daar en my kleinkinders gaan seker daar woon en ek gaan seker eendag dar aftree. Wat ek wil weet....... wat moet ek eerder saambring, my armed bodyguard of die generator wat my krag opwek!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
widget Posted January 28, 2008 Share I like the new South Africa. We have a problem for every solution. - Yup, time to lighten up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinnekop Posted January 28, 2008 Share This calls for pop corn. Was worrying.....we almost went through Monday without a fight!!Yahhhh..... My 2c. Who's to blame? Old regime....new regime.....aparratyd......BEE.......my highschool teacher.........Bush...... WHO f**kING CARES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't want to know who's fault all this crap was / is........I want to know what has to be done TO FIX IT!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goofs Posted January 28, 2008 Share This calls for pop corn. Was worrying.....we almost went through Monday without a fight!!Yahhhh..... My 2c. Who's to blame? Old regime....new regime.....aparratyd......BEE.......my highschool teacher.........Bush...... WHO f**kING CARES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't want to know who's fault all this crap was / is........I want to know what has to be done TO FIX IT!!! I think that's the best answer yet in this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cocaine Posted January 28, 2008 Share With human rights come human obligations and responsibility. How do we make everyone equal - by raising those that were oppressed or pulling down those that were previously advantaged? By taking from one to give to another you are just perpetuating the situation... that is not a sustanable solution, unless of course you would have a sustanable state of retribution and anarchy? The only way to move forward is create equal opportunity, then it is up to the individual to make use of that opportunity... You simply cannot uplift one person at the expense of another that is exactly what apartheid was all about... discrimination of any kind is wrong... the only way this country will ever move forward is if everyone can forget about the past and work towards the future... but as long as we keep using apartheid as an excuse for AA and for the ANC's corruption and crime, etc we are only going one way... and that is DOWN... All I want is a government that is accountable and has the peoples interests at heart... The current government is more interested in disbanding the scorpions then working on our HUGE crime problem... WTF??? Something needs to give sooner or later... but I fear we are on the brink of some really tough times... and it won't only be the previously advantaged that will suffer... the short sighted governance of this country will cost everyone dearly if it keeps on like it is, and only a fool would even try deny that... and that has nothing to do with colour, apartheid, etc... plain and simple the ANC are doing a SH!T job... regardless of what state they got the country they certainly have not improved it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E1A104 Posted January 28, 2008 Share I agree CocaCola, and at the moment it seems as if the government is trying to create equality by tearing down instead of building up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cocaine Posted January 28, 2008 Share This calls for pop corn. Was worrying.....we almost went through Monday without a fight!!Yahhhh..... My 2c. Who's to blame? Old regime....new regime.....aparratyd......BEE.......my highschool teacher.........Bush...... WHO f**kING CARES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't want to know who's fault all this crap was / is........I want to know what has to be done TO FIX IT!!! I think that's the best answer yet in this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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