LCHF - Low Carb High Fat Diet Ver 2

[tombeej]

Regarding this whole omega-6 / omega-3 ratio thing, I just want to highlight a passage from one of the Chris Kresser articles I posted a couple of pages back.

 

"... omega-6 and omega-3 fatty acids compete for the same conversion enzymes.

 

"Several studies have shown that the biological availability and activity of n-6 fatty acids are inversely related to the concentration of of n-3 fatty acids in tissue. Studies have also shown that greater composition of EPA & DHA in membranes reduces the availability of AA for eicosanoid production.

 

"This works the other way, too. The more omega-6 is consumed, the less omega-3 is available to the tissues. So if two people eat a diet identical in omega-3 content, but one person’s diet is high in omega-6, and the other person’s is low, guess who will end up with more omega-3 in their tissues? That’s right – the one with a low omega-6 intake. This is why I constantly tell people that the most important step they can take in normalizing their omega-3:omega-6 ratio is not boosting omega-3 intake, but reducing omega-6."

 

Many months back, I think it was HappyMartin who posted new research done on the subject, showing that we have a maximum PUFA limit. That means total omega-3 and omega-6 (and 9) combined. The studies showed that you can't counteract a high omega-6 diet by thinking you can just consume omega-3 supplements. I will try and find that again, because it's important.

 

Same thing is being said by Chris Kresser. The aim is not necessarily to increase/supplement omega-3 intake. The aim is to reduce omega-6 intake as much as possible.

 

Because remember we are not ruminants. omega-6 PUFAs accumulate in our fat reserves. And with our western diets, that means all those years of eating margarine, mayo, cooking in sunflower/canola oil, etc, we are chock full of omega-6 PUFAs already.

Edited July 18, 2014 by tombeej

[deanbean]

I don't know why everyone is anti-GMO, I've yet to find credible research to say that GMO is bad for you. Not found the contrary either

[davetapson]

I don't know why everyone is anti-GMO, I've yet to find credible research to say that GMO is bad for you. Not found the contrary either

Ja. The main problem with this argument being that what does one mean by GMO?

 

If it means selecting for nicer looking/tastier apples, or breeding for positive characteristics in livestock, then one can't much argue with it. Or possibly even more explicit genetic modification to add favourable characteristics.

 

However, when it comes to creating crops that you can spray with Roundup, which that crop then stores up in vacuoles so that that chemical then gets added to your food chain (maize, soya etc) then I begin to wonder.

 

Personally, I think that food that does not contain Roundup is probably better for me that food that does contain Roundup. And that's what I mean by GMO in the above post

 

Taking this argument on - cattle get fed Roundup Ready maize, and we then eat them, or drink their milk - or as in the post above, that you can't readily get non-Roundup Ready maize for chicken food. In the way of food chains, a little of something at the source gets concentrated as it moves through the food chain and the ultimate consumer (in this case, us) gets the concentrate.

 

There are the rumours of studies being quashed by Monsanto that indicate that Roundup Ready crops are less than ideal as food. I'd not be surprised if this was the case, esp. as with all that has come to light with the sports drink industry and the whole Prudent diet vs LCHF issue.

 

But, until folks get explicit about WHICH forms of GMO they are against, the debate will remain confused and weak. And I was perpetuating that...

[PrinceVlad]

Hi Guys

 

Just a question regarding the initial period when starting out. I've noticed that when starting out you are sluggish and really battle to workout, whether its cycling swimming or running. I've heard that this gets better after a while. My question is, if you work through this phase, albeit at a slower pace, will it influence your fitness levels? My logic says it won't because although the pace is slower, your heart rate is still at the same levels or higher. What do you guys think?

[CindiK]

@htone: Think I must try to attempt a similar experiment this weekend. I’m close to giving up; 12 days in on a very strict LCHF diet, no change in my weight. OK I do realise I’m 1.53m tall and only 5kg’s over, but still, would expected something at least (and I’m a woman, believe you guys have it much easier!)

 

Maybe I eat too much protein or dairy, maybe my portion sizes are too big, or could that 2 glasses of wine last weekend be the cause…I flippen don’t know anymore!

Marge, I cut cream and milk for a week - because I also stopped losing. I have 3 kg to lose (1.675m tall). I lost 800g this last week. Going to play around with it, but in the RMR book, Tim does say that we should watch dairy. I think its also a female thing. Men dont seem to struggle like we do!!

[HappyMartin]

I don't think so PrinceVlad but that's just my opinion. Your cardio vascular system is not the only thing to get conditioned. If your heart rate is elevated sure I buy that you are working that system but if it is not strong enough to work your muscles then I think you are not getting a proper workout.

[CindiK]

The problem with trying to become fat adapted while still trying to remain competitive is just this - you go through a stage where it is just miserable. Probably varies, but for me I couldn't even ride an average race for the first four months without it being a miserable experience, and power only really came back at 6 months or so.

 

So - you probably have a couple of options:

1. realise that you are going to be uncompetitive for a couple of months (let's say 3 - 6 depending on how easily you adapt) and deal with it.

2. introduce some carbs back into your diet (Noakes reckons 200g/day in the lastest AskProfNoakes pod cast) and then reduce by 50g per fortnight / month and see if that brings some vooma back while still keeping you on track with getting carb adapted.

3. scrap the whole thing until you have 3 - 6 months clear in your calendar and then go cold turkey.

 

Regarding taking carbs, the theory goes that you shouldn't take carbs before the event starts as this will cause an insulin spike / low blood sugar etc. I normally only start taking carbs at 30min to 1 hour into an event.

 

JCZA does a lot of racing and he takes carbs before an event. So, it may be a horses for courses thing - try:

1. having a high carb breakfast bf event and take carb before and during event

2. not having a high carb breakfast bf event, start taking carb just before or at start of event.

3. not having a high carb breakfast bf event and only take carb when well into the event.

That way you will find out what works for you.

 

Noakes' comment (in another podcast) was something like 'if you think you need to take carbs (whenever) then take them' i.e. do what you believe will help as the mental thing is probably more important than whatever is going on physically (once fat adapted).

 

It probably doesn't make a hell of a big difference physically what you do once you are fat adapted so your mental state is probably more important to the race outcome. (That's me reading between the lines BTW).

 

Noakes also says that once you are fat adapted, if you eat carbs, the glycogen goes to muscle stores, not fat. So JCZA may have something in his pre-race breakfast.

Thanks for the info Dave. I have been banting for 8 weeks. REALLY struggled for a period, (at Cadence) with v high HR and very low Power. And couldnt find help anywhere. But I just continued and just recently, the power is back to where it was and the HR is back to where it was. Was really discouraging. So, when i ride, I dont know how I am going to handle, so on a 3h30 I take water and then some salami sticks in my pocket and a couple of strawberries or cherries. I am not sure if I need them. So I am experimenting. I am trying to keep my HR a bit lower and not race everyone up hills. Finding it really difficult not to have a coach or someone experienced to help me through this, as every cyclist I know is anti banting, esp the Cadence coach who just keeps telling me my power is down. LOL!! (Im old, nearly 50, so I ride for fun and love to race) Im very IR. I have to really have low (25g) carbs to be in ketosis and lose weight. Have eventually cut out cream and dairy most of the time (the last week) and this has helped to loose a 100g every few days. I have 2.5kg to lose. But now I have Tour de Tuli coming up in 2 weeks. Its 4 days of 65km/day. By that stage I will be about 11 weeks into Banting. Its not a race, so I have some grace, but we (my husband who is also on the diet and has got to his goal weight) in a group with Andrew McLean, so Im a bit worried. Any advice on what to do during the ride? I would like to try on water, but afraid of suffering on day 2. My long term goal is to lose the weight, but I certainly will do everything in my power not to keep the group waiting, so I might need to drink and eat the carbs to survive. Obviously avoiding all grains and sugar. Might eat more fruit if I have to. Do you have advice?

[DikBuffalo]

CindiK, I would take a gel or two in your back pocket but only use them as emergency, keep your priority fuel source as nuts/nut butter if need be, but honestly if you are adapted you shouldn't need it at all for that distance. Using myself as an example, I'm 8 weeks into the LCHF lifestyle, although I've cycled on and off for the last year, but currently for the last 8 weeks, maintaining less than 30g of carbs per day. Had the same initial period of low power and feeling awful on the bike for about 4 weeks, my ftp power before was 389, during the first 4 weeks, I was battling to get it to 330, it's now back at 385 (with a 6 kilogram reduction in weight). So it does come back. I've raced 2 to 3 hour races/training sessions on water in the last 2 weeks with no adverse feelings at all. I'm riding up to 5 hours on water, at an intensity of about 75%. I would advise using an electrolyte if you are racing, with the lower sodium retention and higher effort/sweat I'd advise ensuring you have some electrolyte replacement. With a good LCHF breakfast I wouldn't worry too much....if in doubt an you have the luxury of a power meter on your bike I would limit the big efforts to around your ftp (which honestly is hard enough).

[mulmi]

Problem with eggs is that the chickens have to be fed something to make the eggs - and as Sniffie has said in the past, non-gmo maize is not readily available in SA.

 

I bought a couple of chickens so at least I had some idea of what they are eating (most of the garden, my basil bush, my chilli plants, the flowers amongst other stuff) but am in all likelihood feeding them with gmo maize in their feed.

 

Read Farmer Angus's issueswith trying to get non-gmo chicken feed...

 

That all aside - I eat eggs. First choice are mine, second is Woolies (because they are quite strong on proper farming techniques), third is Boschveld eggs but they are not so easy to get hold of if you don't live in Bela Bela otherwise whatever I can get. Eggs is better than no eggs in my view.

 

I'd prefer they weren't produced by chickens eating gmo maize (read: I'd rather not be eating eggs produced by chickens that excrete dung that contains Roundup^tm.)

Hi i just read a post of your re. chick eggs. I am busy with my own first coop to get my own egg production line. My queation is this. What type of chick do you keep for your egg layers. There ia so many options out there, i do not want to make a mistake.

Problem with eggs is that the chickens have to be fed something to make the eggs - and as Sniffie has said in the past, non-gmo maize is not readily available in SA.

 

I bought a couple of chickens so at least I had some idea of what they are eating (most of the garden, my basil bush, my chilli plants, the flowers amongst other stuff) but am in all likelihood feeding them with gmo maize in their feed.

 

Read Farmer Angus's issueswith trying to get non-gmo chicken feed...

 

That all aside - I eat eggs. First choice are mine, second is Woolies (because they are quite strong on proper farming techniques), third is Boschveld eggs but they are not so easy to get hold of if you don't live in Bela Bela otherwise whatever I can get. Eggs is better than no eggs in my view.

 

I'd prefer they weren't produced by chickens eating gmo maize (read: I'd rather not be eating eggs produced by chickens that excrete dung that contains Roundup^tm.)

 

[mulmi]

Problem with eggs is that the chickens have to be fed something to make the eggs - and as Sniffie has said in the past, non-gmo maize is not readily available in SA.

 

I bought a couple of chickens so at least I had some idea of what they are eating (most of the garden, my basil bush, my chilli plants, the flowers amongst other stuff) but am in all likelihood feeding them with gmo maize in their feed.

 

Read Farmer Angus's issueswith trying to get non-gmo chicken feed...

 

That all aside - I eat eggs. First choice are mine, second is Woolies (because they are quite strong on proper farming techniques), third is Boschveld eggs but they are not so easy to get hold of if you don't live in Bela Bela otherwise whatever I can get. Eggs is better than no eggs in my view.

 

I'd prefer they weren't produced by chickens eating gmo maize (read: I'd rather not be eating eggs produced by chickens that excrete dung that contains Roundup^tm.)

Hi i just read a post of your re. chick eggs. I am busy with my own first coop to get my own egg production line. My queation is this. What type of chick do you keep for your egg layers. There ia so many options out there, i do not want to make a mistake.

Problem with eggs is that the chickens have to be fed something to make the eggs - and as Sniffie has said in the past, non-gmo maize is not readily available in SA.

 

I bought a couple of chickens so at least I had some idea of what they are eating (most of the garden, my basil bush, my chilli plants, the flowers amongst other stuff) but am in all likelihood feeding them with gmo maize in their feed.

 

Read Farmer Angus's issueswith trying to get non-gmo chicken feed...

 

That all aside - I eat eggs. First choice are mine, second is Woolies (because they are quite strong on proper farming techniques), third is Boschveld eggs but they are not so easy to get hold of if you don't live in Bela Bela otherwise whatever I can get. Eggs is better than no eggs in my view.

 

I'd prefer they weren't produced by chickens eating gmo maize (read: I'd rather not be eating eggs produced by chickens that excrete dung that contains Roundup^tm.)

 

[mulmi]

Problem with eggs is that the chickens have to be fed something to make the eggs - and as Sniffie has said in the past, non-gmo maize is not readily available in SA.

 

I bought a couple of chickens so at least I had some idea of what they are eating (most of the garden, my basil bush, my chilli plants, the flowers amongst other stuff) but am in all likelihood feeding them with gmo maize in their feed.

 

Read Farmer Angus's issueswith trying to get non-gmo chicken feed...

 

That all aside - I eat eggs. First choice are mine, second is Woolies (because they are quite strong on proper farming techniques), third is Boschveld eggs but they are not so easy to get hold of if you don't live in Bela Bela otherwise whatever I can get. Eggs is better than no eggs in my view.

 

I'd prefer they weren't produced by chickens eating gmo maize (read: I'd rather not be eating eggs produced by chickens that excrete dung that contains Roundup^tm.)

Hi i just read a post of your re. chick eggs. I am busy with my own first coop to get my own egg production line. My queation is this. What type of chick do you keep for your egg layers. There ia so many options out there, i do not want to make a mistake.

Problem with eggs is that the chickens have to be fed something to make the eggs - and as Sniffie has said in the past, non-gmo maize is not readily available in SA.

 

I bought a couple of chickens so at least I had some idea of what they are eating (most of the garden, my basil bush, my chilli plants, the flowers amongst other stuff) but am in all likelihood feeding them with gmo maize in their feed.

 

Read Farmer Angus's issueswith trying to get non-gmo chicken feed...

 

That all aside - I eat eggs. First choice are mine, second is Woolies (because they are quite strong on proper farming techniques), third is Boschveld eggs but they are not so easy to get hold of if you don't live in Bela Bela otherwise whatever I can get. Eggs is better than no eggs in my view.

 

I'd prefer they weren't produced by chickens eating gmo maize (read: I'd rather not be eating eggs produced by chickens that excrete dung that contains Roundup^tm.)

 

[CindiK]

CindiK, I would take a gel or two in your back pocket but only use them as emergency, keep your priority fuel source as nuts/nut butter if need be, but honestly if you are adapted you shouldn't need it at all for that distance. Using myself as an example, I'm 8 weeks into the LCHF lifestyle, although I've cycled on and off for the last year, but currently for the last 8 weeks, maintaining less than 30g of carbs per day. Had the same initial period of low power and feeling awful on the bike for about 4 weeks, my ftp power before was 389, during the first 4 weeks, I was battling to get it to 330, it's now back at 385 (with a 6 kilogram reduction in weight). So it does come back. I've raced 2 to 3 hour races/training sessions on water in the last 2 weeks with no adverse feelings at all. I'm riding up to 5 hours on water, at an intensity of about 75%. I would advise using an electrolyte if you are racing, with the lower sodium retention and higher effort/sweat I'd advise ensuring you have some electrolyte replacement. With a good LCHF breakfast I wouldn't worry too much....if in doubt an you have the luxury of a power meter on your bike I would limit the big efforts to around your ftp (which honestly is hard enough).

Thanks a lot, that confirms what we've been hearing about using an electrolyte. We use Rehydrate a lot and I used it on Epic 2010 and I've often thought that I have better response to it than an energy drink! :-) Thanks for the encouragement. All meals are provided, so I am a bit afraid of what that might be out in the bush, but will take my coconut oil - and I am sure I can get some eggs for a BPC! And a tin of coconut cream will go down well out there too. I dont have a power metre on my bike (yet) LOL, but being a woman I have a quite a good sense of it! There are some advantages, despite the hormones!!! Glad to hear that others have struggled with power and HR. I think mine was even less than yours, proportionally. Very chuffed to have pushed through and to see the numbers looking better. Ive only lost 2.5kg, but thats a fair amount to drag up hills. I do hear that this ride is fairly flat (will find out!) and sandy which suits me, its just the company that frightens! Thanks for your reply!

[davetapson]

Hi i just read a post of your re. chick eggs. I am busy with my own first coop to get my own egg production line. My queation is this. What type of chick do you keep for your egg layers. There ia so many options out there, i do not want to make a mistake.

I'm reading this on my phone so can't see where you are from. I got mine from Boschveld chickens at Bela Bela. He has created a mixture of indigenous Venda, Matabele and Owambo chickens so they are hardy and robust. They lay like hell too - I'm getting just about 100% from them - I.e. an egg per day per chicken.

[Da Vinci]

On a good food note does anyone know where in CT pref Nsubs I can find free range pork? The one pnp in Plattekloof had it but ideally a butchery would be good.

[Cuppa Bru]

Anybody looking to make bone broth should try ox neck.

Got 3.5kg at PnP on Friday @ R28/kg. Enough to fill my 7 litre pressure cooker..

There was a surprisingly good amount of meat on the bones.

Added spices and red wine vinegar and let it simmer for most of the day.

Stew was delicious and congealed to a thick jelly in the fridge. If your broth doesn't congeal then consider adding more bones(or longer cooking times) or less water.

You can reuse the bones until they are soft (I made two batches and both congealed).

Enjoy

[An3]

Anybody looking to make bone broth should try ox neck.

Got 3.5kg at PnP on Friday @ R28/kg. Enough to fill my 7 litre pressure cooker..

There was a surprisingly good amount of meat on the bones.

Added spices and red wine vinegar and let it simmer for most of the day.

Stew was delicious and congealed to a thick jelly in the fridge. If your broth doesn't congeal then consider adding more bones(or longer cooking times) or less water.

You can reuse the bones until they are soft (I made two batches and both congealed).

Enjoy

 

Which P&P? I could not get at East Rand Mall or Towers.