Johan Bornman Posted August 18, 2014 Share Clearly you don't know Victor Momsen..... he has been designing bikes for more than 20 years... including time with several BIG manufacturers in Asia...With respect to Victor, with whom I have no beef. I don't know him and it seems like he has a successful business going. I wish him all the best and I find joy in seeing ZA entrepreneurs doing well. Designing a bike is not as easy as it seems. In the old days where bikes were brazed from tubesets and cast-iron lugs, lots of people called themselves designers, including a few successful ZA frame makers, I would imagine. Reality is, all the design was in the lugs, where the angles, offsets, stresses and strains, were all built into the meccano set pieces which were commercially available from several lug manufactuers, including the likes of Cinelli, Ceeway and others. All the builder had to do was select the appropriate lugs, cut the tubes to the customer's size, assemble it all on a jig and braze. I also made myself a bike like that, one that I still ride today. This is not bike design. Modern bike design would require actual design and engineering skills. This is particularly true for carbon bikes or aluminium bikes with hydroformed tubes. Keep in mind that the creator of a bike has an obligation to the end user in terms of safety and will understand the materials he or she is working with well enough, to ensure that the end product will not fail catastrophically. Only engineers are trained to do this. This obligation becomes particularly difficult to manage with the market forces that dictate minimum weight. This effectively leaves no margin for error. A particularly critical component is the fork. Very few bike companies design their own forks and usually outsource this to specialist like Reynolds, Dedaccia (SP?) and the likes. I have no idea how one goes about getting a Taiwanese company to make a bike for you but I would imagine that you either give them a CAD drawing and very specific parameters or, you leave the design work to them and make cosmetic decisions such as the curve of the top tube, the profile of the chainstays or whatever. This is the engineering equivalent to colouring in by numbers. I have seen some Taiwanese catalogue frames and have come to recognise many design artifcats in some of the bikes available in ZA under various brands. These frames are all the work of one designer or one master engineering organization that does work on behalf of others. One way of working around the "Designed in South Africa" problem (if you want to be perfectly honest) is to fly a bike designer over to South Africa, put him up in a hotel in Sandton and tell him to not emerge until his has finished the design. That would technically be a "designed in South Africa bike." Personally, I don't care where something was invented, designed or manufactured. I attach no value to these designations but I do see the marketing value in playing the patriotism card or the "Made in Western Germany" ace. I own some excellent goods made in China. If Mr Momsen indeed designs his bikes himself, I have to assume that he is either an engineer or has an engineer checking his work. The liability otherwise is huge, not to even think about the cost of a recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rock Posted August 18, 2014 Share I'm upset that the team issue frame comes stock with a 1x specific chainstay but still has a front derailleur mount on the seat tube.....I demand a new mold for the front triangle immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NixM Posted August 18, 2014 Share Anyway, I very impulsively picked up a 650b trail frame with 150 mm fork off the hub about a month ago and built it up by stripping a 26er which had been long neglected. Not exactly the brand of my dreams but I am loving the long travel. So the finances are not going to upgrade my 29er HT to a FS just yet. (Please note its black) Edited August 18, 2014 by NixM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rock Posted August 18, 2014 Share Johan, Pat Morewood had his hand in the Vipa.....Vi.......Pa....geddit? Its not a catalogue frame in any way. Tumbleweed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Bornman Posted August 18, 2014 Share Johan, Pat Morewood had his hand in the Vipa.....Vi.......Pa....geddit? Its not a catalogue frame in any way. I don't see Pat Morewood's name mentioned anywhere in the post to which I'm responding. But you seem to have insider knowledge. Who designed the Vipa and other Momsen bikes? Were these designed from scratch? Is the suspension system unique or under license from someone else? I'm trying to get behind the term "design" as used in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deonkretch Posted August 18, 2014 Share @NixM: Buy one of these: http://www.julianabi...om/en/us/joplin EDIT: Juliana = Women's specific Santa Cruzhttp://www.julianabicycles.com/files/bikes/34png/joplin_34-my15.pngNow this is a bike! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLuvsMtb Posted August 18, 2014 Share I don't see Pat Morewood's name mentioned anywhere in the post to which I'm responding. But you seem to have insider knowledge. Who designed the Vipa and other Momsen bikes? Were these designed from scratch? Is the suspension system unique or under license from someone else? I'm trying to get behind the term "design" as used in this thread.I think they are referring to this...http://www.bikerumor.com/2013/03/05/exclusive-momsen-teams-with-morewood-south-african-superbike-vipa-snakes-into-reality/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumbleweed Posted August 18, 2014 Share Johan, Pat Morewood had his hand in the Vipa.....Vi.......Pa....geddit? Its not a catalogue frame in any way. There are engineers and there are wannabe engineers... I was working for Tread, when I saw Patrick scoping out the Momses at our stand outside Coffeeberry at the PMB WC in 2011. Victor came over and they huddled down and talked bikes. They sounded like engineers to me. The waffle above by JB is not really worth a response. Kranswurm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLuvsMtb Posted August 18, 2014 Share Now this is a bike!But its pink!<hat... coat... door> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Smimby Posted August 18, 2014 Share I don't see Pat Morewood's name mentioned anywhere in the post to which I'm responding. But you seem to have insider knowledge. Who designed the Vipa and other Momsen bikes? Were these designed from scratch? Is the suspension system unique or under license from someone else? I'm trying to get behind the term "design" as used in this thread. Johan, you should really read more....it was all over the news and even thehub...... Kranswurm, V12man and Tumbleweed 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uni Posted August 18, 2014 Share But its pink!<hat... coat... door> it's Siren Red - NOT pink NixM 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Bornman Posted August 18, 2014 Share I think they are referring to this...http://www.bikerumor...s-into-reality/ Thanks for the link. It seems like it uses Patrick's suspension design, which answers some of my questions. The snake picture also changes the way I pronounce Vipa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumbleweed Posted August 18, 2014 Share Now say sorry, Johan, if your pride allows: Curriculum Vitae of… –> Victor MomsenBegan MTB racing in 1990Worked part-time at BeachBreak, “SA’s first real MTB shop”Earned provincial colours in XC and DHMatriculated from Alexander Road High School in 1993Studied Mechanical Engineering at the Port Elizabeth Technikon – 1994 to 1997Competed for Wheeler Bicycles 1993/94, assisting with testing and developmentIn-service training Dip Mech Engineering Taiwan 1995Research and Development Assistant at Wheeler Taiwan 1997 to 1999Joined Taiwan Trading Company – Marzocchi & HayesCo-founded FUNN (design and product development)Joined Probike SA as Product Manager in 2000Promoted to Product Director in 2005 (design and development of Raleigh)Founded Two Wheels Trading in 2007Founded Momsen Bikes in 2009/li> Edited August 18, 2014 by Tumbleweed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Bornman Posted August 18, 2014 Share Now say sorry, Johan, if your pride allows: Curriculum Vitae of… –> Victor MomsenBegan MTB racing in 1990Worked part-time at BeachBreak, “SA’s first real MTB shop”Earned provincial colours in XC and DHMatriculated from Alexander Road High School in 1993Studied Mechanical Engineering at the Port Elizabeth Technikon – 1994 to 1997Competed for Wheeler Bicycles 1993/94, assisting with testing and developmentIn-service training Dip Mech Engineering Taiwan 1995Research and Development Assistant at Wheeler Taiwan 1997 to 1999Joined Taiwan Trading Company – Marzocchi & HayesCo-founded FUNN (design and product development)Joined Probike SA as Product Manager in 2000Promoted to Product Director in 2005 (design and development of Raleigh)Founded Two Wheels Trading in 2007Founded Momsen Bikes in 2009/li>I'm sorry. javadude, sjeants, BigDL and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rock Posted August 18, 2014 Share now let's argue the merits of the term "engineered' http://brimages.bikeboardmedia.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Vipa_Toptube.jpg Tumbleweed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondeonabike Posted August 18, 2014 Share Getting back to the original colour issue, from a gals point of view I dont mind the odd splash of pink on a bike, but not with white being the dominant colour. If the black and white on the bike of the OP's original post were alternated, I would say OK. Just look at Ladies and bicycle thread post 7711. This girl means business and the black and pink bike looks good. Tumbleweed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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