Long Wheel Base Posted June 17, 2016 Share Count your blessings. I had a Powertap wheel built by someone on the hub who was a legendary wheelbuilder in his own mind who worked ( and taught his appy to work) on sound and dismissed a tension meter and then pulled a spoke through the rim, blamed Enve for their poor design and wanted me to pay him for his workmanship and the spokes he supplied. I subsequently found the wheel was almost oval and some spokes were at twice specified tension.Wow at twice the specified tension he definitely would be hearing some sounds. On some wheels especially ally rims there would be quite a few "tings".Wheel building isn't as simple as a lot of people think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumbleweed Posted June 17, 2016 Share Count your blessings. I had a Powertap wheel built by someone on the hub who was a legendary wheelbuilder in his own mind who worked ( and taught his appy to work) on sound and dismissed a tension meter and then pulled a spoke through the rim, blamed Enve for their poor design and wanted me to pay him for his workmanship and the spokes he supplied. I subsequently found the wheel was almost oval and some spokes were at twice specified tension. If it's who I am thinking about, he claimed to be quit a whizz about the CPA too... Captain Fastbastard Mayhem, Chro Mo, slickandtyred and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rouxtjie Posted June 17, 2016 Share Count your blessings. I had a Powertap wheel built by someone on the hub who was a legendary wheelbuilder in his own mind who worked ( and taught his appy to work) on sound and dismissed a tension meter and then pulled a spoke through the rim, blamed Enve for their poor design and wanted me to pay him for his workmanship and the spokes he supplied. I subsequently found the wheel was almost oval and some spokes were at twice specified tension.did they use a guitar tuner, Eb tuning is my favourite... Escapee.. and Danger Dassie 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDF Posted June 17, 2016 Share Count your blessings. I had a Powertap wheel built by someone on the hub who was a legendary wheelbuilder in his own mind who worked ( and taught his appy to work) on sound and dismissed a tension meter and then pulled a spoke through the rim, blamed Enve for their poor design and wanted me to pay him for his workmanship and the spokes he supplied. I subsequently found the wheel was almost oval and some spokes were at twice specified tension.Maybe he thought they were Roval and not Enve? Roval is a combination of round and oval, so he went with oval this time? But really, I wish people paid attention to correct tensions and torques and didn't think that they were just so skilled that they "feel" when its right! Many a wheel has been stuffed up by "feeling". Many a bolt has been stripped or stretched because of over tightening. I sometimes think they just tighten until the thread runs out. eddy and nonky 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pikey Posted June 17, 2016 Share I was about to buy some Father's Day specials from buycycle on line ( from me to me ) Right now. But this makes me hesitant to support a shop (albiet on line) who won't gurantee there work or products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumbleweed Posted June 17, 2016 Share I was about to buy some Father's Day specials from buycycle on line ( from me to me ) Right now. But this makes me hesitant to support a shop (albiet on line) who won't gurantee there work or products.Check with them first. The OP hasn't provided enough facts. mrbaker, Pikey and Kristie BuyCycle 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chro Mo Posted June 17, 2016 Share If it's who I am thinking about, he claimed to be quit a whizz about the CPA too... If is who I think it is, the entire left side of the rear wheel he built for me was not pre-stressed, resulting in a very interesting ride one Saturday morning. Use a builder you know and trust, people. Tumbleweed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotSoBigBen Posted June 17, 2016 Share I was about to buy some Father's Day specials from buycycle on line ( from me to me ) Right now. But this makes me hesitant to support a shop (albiet on line) who won't gurantee there work or products. I also wouldn't just take it on face value, perhaps give them a call, there's always 2 (or 3 or 4) sides to a story ... we only have one side at the moment and not doubting the facts but it's a dangerous bandwagon to jump on! Kristie BuyCycle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon29er Posted June 17, 2016 Share There are just too many variables when discussing warranty on a wheel. A wheel should last more than 1,000km but how do you prove distance. Time is an easy measurement as it's not variable. Then what proof is there available that the tension is now as it was when it left the shop? Having said that, I would think most wheel builders would warrant their build for at most 6 months. Longer than that is a bonus. I have a set of brand new factory built Zipp 303 in stock. The tension on the 4 sides is 62, 73, 96 and 130 on A ParkTool TM-1. So even factory wheels don't have a uniform tension across 4 sides. Every wheel builder knows that it is impossible to get the same tension on both sides of a wheel and maintain dish, radial and lateral trueness unless the hub is symmetrical. Kristie BuyCycle, Skinnyone and mrbaker 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mntboy Posted June 17, 2016 Share did they use a guitar tuner, Eb tuning is my favourite...Very Goo Goo Dolls of you. Sent from my GT-S6790 using Tapatalk rouxtjie and Rocket-Boy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flange Posted June 17, 2016 Share Tks all for the comments ... appreciate them. I will certainly not build another wheel with a power tap that I will only be using 3 months a year. Will look at alternatives (heard the stages device may be an alternative)For the skeptics attached my Email Addr flange363@gmail.com. Pop me a note and you are quite welcome come have a look, I have a complete set of training equipment and a complete set of racing equipment. Alternatively check out my Garmin or Strava accounts to see the amount of road rides (excluding MTB where I spend most the year) that were done with power in the last 9 months. All weekly power training rides are done on an indoor Cycleops trainer. I have a long mail trail with the company (pop me an email and I will share it) and should you want to confirm any of the attached (which I did give buycycle the opportunity to respond) please mail Kristie@buycycle. My aim was to get information wrt my situation which I have now got... thank you and advise people to be careful of potentially purchasing old equipment online and that buycycle do not warranty their workmanship. I agree there are always three sides to the story, "Audi alteram partem". so please do. Tks Charles slickandtyred, Kristie BuyCycle, Oufy MTB (Roadie) and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rouxtjie Posted June 17, 2016 Share Very Goo Goo Dolls of you. Sent from my GT-S6790 using Tapatalkag nee wat....gunners of nothing Nighttrain pappie....AFD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted June 17, 2016 Share Count your blessings. I had a Powertap wheel built by someone on the hub who was a legendary wheelbuilder in his own mind who worked ( and taught his appy to work) on sound and dismissed a tension meter and then pulled a spoke through the rim, blamed Enve for their poor design and wanted me to pay him for his workmanship and the spokes he supplied. I subsequently found the wheel was almost oval and some spokes were at twice specified tension.LOL. I think I know who you mean eddy and Tumbleweed 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinnyone Posted June 20, 2016 Share Zipp (and most others - Roval, Reynolds etc.) are very sticky about their warranty policy regarding the rims being built into ANY aftermarket hubs as they have no control over the build tension/quality any one at these brands (if asked) will tell you this. Most wheel builders I know will not guarantee their builds for more than 6 months, (apart from the infamous individual that claimed a "lifetime" guarantee - same person who thought tension meters were for sissies), for a reason...once it leaves the builders hands who knows what's happened? The wheels could have been "trued" or "tweaked" by a bike shop or the owner...not to say this is the case here but see my point? I know with Roval that as soon as you fit an aftermarket hub, regardless of spoke tension, the warranty on the rim is void, pretty much the same thing with Zipp...remember that a low spoke tension can also be harmful... To be fair to Buycycle I can see why they won't guarantee the workmanship as its now a year down the line and yes you say the wheels haven't been used that much but when you buy a car you get a mileage (easily proven) or time related warranty...if you don't do the mileage within the time frame then the warranty runs out... Same thing here IMO, Let's say the wheel was an OE wheel and you only ride them in races every now and again and the 2 year warranty period passes and the rim cracks.... Tumbleweed and Kristie BuyCycle 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulst12 Posted June 20, 2016 Share Sounds like a pretty straight forward story... They over tensioned the spokes and over time it caused a problem. Its not likely that this is going to happen overnight, hence the time.BUYCYCLE should in this instance be accountable for what they have sold / produced. You cannot deliver something that is clearly faulty and then hide behind a disclaimer that you cannot be accountable for faulty service!!! slickandtyred 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDF Posted June 20, 2016 Share They way I understand it from all the OP's posts is:1. OP bought a ZIPP wheel from BuyCycle2. OP had a PowerTap built into the wheel. He does not say where the PowerTap came from but it seems safe to assume that it also came from BuyCycle as it was an online purchase3. BuyCycle built the wheel onto the powerTap using their spokes.4. OP cycled about 1000km on the wheel in just over a year.5. Wheel failed after a year due to cracks appearing in 4 places on the rim.6. Wheel returned to BuyCycle with the intention of making a warranty claim7. BuyCycle sent it to the ZIPP agents (Cape Cycles) who check the spoke tension and inform that it is not within specifications. They decline to honour a warranty due to breach of warranty conditions.8. BuyCycle asserted that they offer no warranty on their workmanship. My comments are:1. Manufacturer (ZIPP and CycleOps) via their agent provides a conditional warranty warranty. The retailer should be intimately aware of the terms of the warranty.2. BuyCycle agreed to build the wheel at the request of the OP.3. BuyCycle failed to advise the OP that altering the ZIPP wheel would effectively void the warranty that the wheel would otherwise have carried.4. OP failed to ask any questions about the warranty at the time of requesting the wheel to be built by BuyCycle.5. Wheel worked perfectly for a year or 1000km, or so it seemed anyway.6. Mechanically, to take the spoke tensions after the wheel failed and make assertions based on those readings is laughable. If the tension on one spoke changed for any reason (wheel failure) the tensions on the opposing and surrounding spokes changes immediately. Basing a warranty claim on that alone would be contestable.7. Warranties have conditions. They are there to protect the manufacturer from fallacious claims as well as wear and tear reasonably expected with the product. Lessons for the OP: Do your homework before committingLessons for BuyCycle: Make sure you communicate warranty conditions and ESPECIALLY when you are going to assist in voiding a warranty I hope all the parties can reach a fair and amicable solution here. Skinnyone, AdamA and Kristie BuyCycle 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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