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UCI DH World Cup 2017 #1 - Lourdes 29-30 April


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Agreed, they were still gunning it, however the slip and slide show was def on. This was the direct influence to slower times. The wind didnt bother some of the riders, as you could see some guys struggle at the top and others just pinned it down to the wall

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Unfortunately there is not much you as an organiser can do  - other than cancel the event ...

Major changes in Schedule cant be accommodated ...

 

The last time this happened was 2007 ... so 1 in 10 years is good going.

 

Put it this way however ....

WHAT IF .... (and this has happened on LOTS of occasions in the last couple of years) ...

There is a massive rainstorm before the event begins - this hinders the first 40 riders who rider in absolutely attrocous conditions and basically "clean" the track for the later riders as the rain stops and the track begins to dry .... Then the top "contendors" of that event have good conditions ... Isnt this just as unfair for the first 40 riders???

 

This has happened on a number of occasions - but interestingly - there is never a complaint when it happens this way around .... 

Fair point.  

 

I agree there will never be a solution that pleases all, and perhaps that was just a day for the also-rans to get some glory.  No issue with that, but I'm still surprised that they sent guys down there at the end.  You could even hear with Gwinn's run how Warner held his breath when he hit the first gap-huck out the gate.  That's something they do eyes closed and it ended up being massive due to the winds.  That's not a race anymore.

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Well the issue is being raised now and I am of the view that there's room for improvement.  It seems that the general mood is that this was one of the most disappointing races in a very long time.  So either that or we're all butt-hurt as you say.

 

But let me entertain your non sequitur - Let's say someone did slip on icy mud and broke their neck and died.  Would that then have been within the realm of reasonable for this sport?  Is that what riders signed up for?  Do we send Rampage Riders down the cliff when winds are pumping?  Do guys paddle out when Chopes is unsurfable and dangerous?

My feeling is that the system is fine, a bad case of weather every now and then doesn't mean you need to adjust the rules for the other 99% of events.

 

The event directors can cancel, BUT the riders can also elect not to ride. Looking out from that start ramp into the mist, I'm sure many must have wondered what the point was. If it looks futile, don't go, that simple. There is obviously pressure from team, sponsors and fans but the pedal stroke to start comes from the rider.

 

They all got down so while it wasn't fast in any way, the riders were able to manage the risk. (AFAIK, all riders finished the course and no one got injured)

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"Fort William—a track that would appear to suit a bike that can roll faster and through bigger holes, or maybe they were still working to get the bike or components right. If that plan had worked out, then maybe 29ers were planned as special track bikes, another weapon in the arsenal. What Santa Cruz did was beat everyone to the punch"

 

"Richie Rude has won the EWS on a 27.5 for the last two seasons running"

 

"It all comes back to that one, crucial point: It's all about the rider, not the bike. "

 

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/opinion-calm-reflections-of-big-wheeled-panic.html

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What Santa Cruz did was beat everyone to the punch"

 

 

"It all comes back to that one, crucial point: It's all about the rider, not the bike. "

 

 

 

Shaw, Minnaar and Vergier...say no more...that is a phenomenal team

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"Fort William—a track that would appear to suit a bike that can roll faster and through bigger holes, or maybe they were still working to get the bike or components right. If that plan had worked out, then maybe 29ers were planned as special track bikes, another weapon in the arsenal. What Santa Cruz did was beat everyone to the punch"

 

"Richie Rude has won the EWS on a 27.5 for the last two seasons running"

 

"It all comes back to that one, crucial point: It's all about the rider, not the bike. "

 

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/opinion-calm-reflections-of-big-wheeled-panic.html

 

 

Shaw, Minnaar and Vergier...say no more...that is a phenomenal team

bull dust, everyone knows red bikes are faster.... you just see less red bikes these days as riders are too scared of their raw and untamed speed.

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bull dust, everyone knows red bikes are faster.... you just see less red bikes these days as riders are too scared of their raw and untamed speed.

Since when is Gee scared of speed ?

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My five cents.

 

This weekend's damp squib race and all the "hype" around 29ers showed how flawed the the current WC set up is.

 

World Cup Downhill racing needs a Kerry Packard- World Series Cricket type shake up. (Without going into the details, he almost single handedly changed the way cricket was played, marketed and how much cricket players got paid by starting a rebel series not endorsed by the ICC)

 

What Brendog said last year makes sense in a lot of ways: Fewer riders, getting more TV exposure, corporate sponsors, more races. The reason there is almost no corporate sponsorship for the World Cup teams, is because the sponsors does not get enough exposure. By showing more of each rider's race run, and having more races per calendar year, will bring more money into the sport. MX racing has proved that point: more races, more TV time, crowds etc means more money.

 

The entertainment factor is also well below par. While most of us on this forum love to see world class riders ripping through rock gardens, or negotiating a tricky rock drop, the average viewer is a lot more impressed with huge jumps over roads and rivers. How many of those did we see on Sunday: Nada. They chose to show us none of the jump line. Funny how huge crowds go and watch MX riders hitting the same jumps again and again. If they want to increase the viewership and interest from the wider public, the broadcaster needs to cater for them.

 

Say for arguments sake only 20-30 riders had to race on Sunday. The best riders would have ridden in similar conditions. ( The track did deteriorate quite quickly, so some riders would have had an advantage anyway.) Do not get me wrong. I have no problems with the riders who does not regularly make the top fifty, but unfortunately that's how pro sports work. Not every pro road cyclist gets to race in the Tour.

 

This is what I would like to see: Fifteen teams, 3 riders each. Twenty/ Twenty five riders race on Sunday. No protected riders. Twelve to fifteen races a year. ( They can race all the races in Europe for what I care, I just want to watch more races.) Everybody on similar bikes for that season. ( The same wheel size comes to mind.) And finally: The UCI give the teams a much bigger stake in the sport, or just leave DH to regulate it self.

Edited by Samurai Pizza Cat
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My five cents.

 

This  weekend's damp squib race and all the "hype" around 29ers showed how flawed the the current WC set up is.

 

World Cup Downhill racing needs a Kerry Packard- World Series Cricket type shake up. (Without going into the details, he almost single handedly changed the way cricket was played, marketed and how much cricket players got paid by staring a rebel series not endorsed by the ICC)

 

What Brendog said last year makes sense in a lot of ways: Fewer riders, getting more TV exposure, corporate sponsors, more races. The reason there is almost no corporate sponsorship for the World Cup teams, is because the sponsors does not get enough exposure. By showing more of each rider's race run, and having more races per calendar year, will bring more money into the sport. MX racing has proved that point: more races, more TV time, crowds etc means more money. 

 

The entertainment factor is also well below par. While most of us on this forum love to see world class riders ripping through  rock gardens, or negotiating a tricky rock drop, the average viewer is a lot more impressed with huge jumps over roads and rivers. How many of those did we see on Sunday: Nada.  They chose to show us none of the jump line. Funny how huge crowds go and watch MX riders hitting the same jumps again and again. If they want to increase the viewership and interest from the wider public, the broadcaster needs to cater for them. 

 

Say for arguments sake only 20-30 riders had to race on Sunday. The best riders would have ridden in similar conditions. ( The track did deteriorate quite quickly, so some riders would have had an advantage anyway.) Do not get me wrong. I have no problems with the riders who does not regularly make the top fifty, but unfortunately that's how pro sports work. Not every pro road cyclist gets to race in the Tour.

 

This is what I would like to see: Fifteen teams, 3 riders each. Twenty/ Twenty five riders race on Sunday. No protected riders. Twelve to fifteen races a year. ( They can race all the races in Europe for what I care, I just want to watch more races.) Everybody on similar bikes for that season. ( The same wheel size comes to mind.) And finally: The UCI give the teams a much bigger stake in the sport, or just leave DH to regulate it self.

 

I agree that we need more races and that we need to see more of the run. However, restricting the race is also going to stifle the sport. It'll become like F1, where it is nigh-on impossible to break into the upper echelons, as they could be occupied for years by the same riders. It will be so discouraging for up 'n coming riders to try and motivate that they should be on the ticket and not an current factory team rider.

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I agree that we need more races and that we need to see more of the run. However, restricting the race is also going to stifle the sport. It'll become like F1, where it is nigh-on impossible to break into the upper echelons, as they could be occupied for years by the same riders. It will be so discouraging for up 'n coming riders to try and motivate that they should be on the ticket and not an current factory team rider.

I see where you are coming from, but just like in road cycling, the teams does not necessarily have to be made up of only three riders....the younger up and coming riders can still be racing in the national and euro cup circuits. When you get your chance to race a WC when someone is injured, you just have to take it. A lot of the riders outside of the top fifty are self funded anyway, and few of them ever get a paid ride. Imagine a Sky DH team made up of 10 paid riders. Number 9 and 10 in this team might not race world cups, or earn much, but at least they will have some support and they'll learn from some of the best riders on the circuit. The alternative is sleeping in an old van hoping for a miracle race run somewhere in the future.

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I see where you are coming from, but just like in road cycling, the teams does not necessarily have to be made up of only three riders....the younger up and coming riders can still be racing in the national and euro cup circuits. When you get your chance to race a WC when someone is injured, you just have to take it. A lot of the riders outside of the top fifty are self funded anyway, and few of them ever get a paid ride. Imagine a Sky DH team made up of 10 paid riders. Number 9 and 10 in this team might not race world cups, or earn much, but at least they will have some support and they'll learn from some of the best riders on the circuit. The alternative is sleeping in an old van hoping for a miracle race run somewhere in the future.

I doubt what you suggest will make any difference to sponsorship and do we need a change anyway? Are the riders underpaid?  There is already the Rampage which goes out on mainstream TV and gets lots of views. Are there massive corporate sponsors there? Who is the average viewer anyway - in my book its the average gravity oriented rider or general MTB enthusiast. I know marathon riders who watch the DH religiously too and I watch XC, another MTB event that lacks massive coverage.

 

In DH,  the venues and nature of the sport make televising the whole lap problematic. Ever watched WRC lately - you see almost nothing (maybe it was always like that?). I doubt anyone but motor manufacturers really get much bang for their sponsorship buck there.

 

Lets face it there is lots more money in MX because its motorsport and although I don't have stats, there are probably many more people riding MX bikes than DH bikes around the world, so probably more fans as a result. Its easier to relate to and quite spectacular, at least for a while. 

 

Its on a short circuit and has been razmatazzed up to the hilt by Americans, the same people who do NASCAR,  play baseball and grid iron in front of massive crowds. Do we want that in MTB? You know rockets going off as riders start?

 

If we dumb down DH into a bunch of guys riding big jumps one after another all we are doing is destroying the sport IMO. Its a subtle game that you need to be something of an anorak/rider yourself to appreciate properly. 

 

As for the first race being a snore-fest, you're entitled to your opinion, but it doesn't sound as if we watched the same race. 

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I doubt what you suggest will make any difference to sponsorship and do we need a change anyway? Are the riders underpaid?  There is already the Rampage which goes out on mainstream TV and gets lots of views. Are there massive corporate sponsors there? Who is the average viewer anyway - in my book its the average gravity oriented rider or general MTB enthusiast. I know marathon riders who watch the DH religiously too and I watch XC, another MTB event that lacks massive coverage.

 

In DH,  the venues and nature of the sport make televising the whole lap problematic. Ever watched WRC lately - you see almost nothing (maybe it was always like that?). I doubt anyone but motor manufacturers really get much bang for their sponsorship buck there.

 

Lets face it there is lots more money in MX because its motorsport and although I don't have stats, there are probably many more people riding MX bikes than DH bikes around the world, so probably more fans as a result. Its easier to relate to and quite spectacular, at least for a while. 

 

Its on a short circuit and has been razmatazzed up to the hilt by Americans, the same people who do NASCAR,  play baseball and grid iron in front of massive crowds. Do we want that in MTB? You know rockets going off as riders start?

 

If we dumb down DH into a bunch of guys riding big jumps one after another all we are doing is destroying the sport IMO. Its a subtle game that you need to be something of an anorak/rider yourself to appreciate properly. 

 

As for the first race being a snore-fest, you're entitled to your opinion, but it doesn't sound as if we watched the same race. 

Hi Headshot,

 

Clearly I have insulted you in some way, and I apologize.

 

But in reply to your message:

 

It's not what I'm suggesting, I'm just rehashing and supporting what other people in the industry are already saying.

 

Yes, the riders are underpaid. With the exception of Greg and Gwin who have very shrewd agents who negotiate their contracts, the average rider earns between 30 000 USD and 50 000 USD. (Endorsements and image rights excluded.) Given that these riders have fairly short careers, and are the best in the world at what they do, they are underpaid. The top guys might earn 300 000 USD ++, but it is still not much compared to what road cyclists earn. The majority of road cyclists' salaries are paid by the corporate sponsors. Not by Specialized or Trek, which are small companies compared to Sky or Movistar.

 

Here is a Pinkbike link on this issue: https://www.pinkbike.com/news/pinkbike-poll-how-much-should-a-top-dh-racer-be-paid-2015.html

 

The most interesting comment on this poll /article is from one of the sponsors: Troy Lee Designs

 

 Just some food for thought and let you fill in the blanks. Fort William estimated to sell 30k tickets to people to come watch DH racing, in the middle of friggin nowhere. Anaheim stadium sells out SX at about 45k (I'd say thats a good average of all the SX stadium sizes), in one of the largest metropolitan areas of the world (so-cal)....Sea Otter gets an estimated 40k people to pay to see some bike stuff, so, both have a great following, we know that.

 

Live streaming from Redbull of the DH world cup is some of the highest rated/viewed action sports on the network, we are not at liberty to share the actual numbers, but, they are more than the highest viewed MX event, which is Redbull straight rhythm, and don't even talk about Rampage, as that breaks all records...but;

 

While DH and slope events get massive coverage for the sport, they are few and far between-There are 17 Supercross events, 12 Outdoor MX, 1 live televised Monster Energy Cup, Live Straight rhythm, those moto guys almost have a full year of racing for the fans...heck thats just in america! throw in MX GP's in europe and you have so much exposure for those athletes, compared to bike.

 

So, we as a brand are involved deeply in both industries; Bike and Moto, we love both, it seems Bike has bigger 'hits', just less of them? There are ONLY 7 world cups a year, that makes it really difficult to get year long exposure with those great numbers that the live events DO provide us with. The beauty in this though, is it creates a lot of video content from the bike athletes, to keep you satisfied all year, that is often more enjoyable to watch than a race run-moto doesn't get these cool video projects, they never have time!

 

The big moto brands are also backed by a bigger corporate engine, KTM, Honda, Yamaha, Kawisaki, Suzuki have much higher revenue streams than bicycle companies, and race bikes are their halo product, with large budgets grandfathered in over the years.

 

I think we'd be better served comparing apples to apples, and thats bicycle road racing to mountain biking-with road racers making millions, and there is no MTBer making millions, that is odd eh?

 
They basically echo what Brendon Fairclough (a rider who could appreciate it himself) said in this article:
 
 
I'm not supporting "dumb down" racing. I want to see more (not the whole run) of the best riders' race runs, and I'd like to see it more often, on gnarlier tracks. How is that a bad thing?
 
The "average viewer" is that part of the TV watching population that just does not even own a bicycle. Or owns a bicycle but have never even heard of Greg Minnaar. If you get them to start following the sport, corporate sponsors will follow. Millions of people who does not own a road bike watch the Tour de France. Given, the Tour is over a hundred years old, but still. Would you prefer it if only some MTB'ers watch the sport, and not see it grow? 
 
And finally, you are quite active on Pinkbike and should remember the whole furore around how little the Red Bull Rampage athletes earn. Most of the riders fund themselves and make a financial loss when competing in that event. How is that good for the future of the sport? 
 
BTW, I never said the race was a snore fest: I said it was a damb squib: a situation or event which is much less impressive than expected. And it was, given the hype before the race.
 
Have a great weekend!
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Yes, the riders are underpaid. With the exception of Greg and Gwin who have very shrewd agents who negotiate their contracts, the average rider earns between 30 000 USD and 50 000 USD. (Endorsements and image rights excluded.) Given that these riders have fairly short careers, and are the best in the world at what they do, they are underpaid. The top guys might earn 300 000 USD ++, but it is still not much compared to what road cyclists earn. The majority of road cyclists' salaries are paid by the corporate sponsors. Not by Specialized or Trek, which are small companies compared to Sky or Movistar.

 

 

Hey boss.

 

When you compare what golfers (for example) earn vs what pro cyclists earn something doesn't add up. As an industry cycling is bigger than golf. And yet the guys at the top of their game earn relatively small amounts of $. So where is the money going?

 

For example. Mark Cavendish reportedly earns GBP 3mil. That's small potatoes when compared to even a mid level golf player.

 

If you look at how fast we consume the latest little fad/innovation generated by the various bike company marketing departments I honestly think the Athletes and consumers are getting a VERY raw deal. SOMEONE is making big $ out of cycling and it's not the athletes.

 

 

On the other hand............

 

If DH is to be taken seriously as a sport and the riders be rewarded accordingly then it's first going to have to take itself seriously. Interviewing riders with a banana on the track walk and not knowing the words to your national anthem when you win a world cup is amateurish. But then..... Do we as jo pleb with a DH bike who watches Red Bull TV 7 times a year actually want Monster Girls, Fire Works and boring thank all the sponsors interviews?

Edited by Duane_Bosch
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On the other hand............

 

If DH is to be taken seriously as a sport and the riders be rewarded accordingly then it's first going to have to take itself seriously. Interviewing riders with a banana on the track walk and not knowing the words to your national anthem when you win a world cup is amateurish. But then..... Do we as jo pleb with a DH bike who watches Red Bull TV 7 times a year actually want Monster Girls, Fire Works and boring thank all the sponsors interviews?

 

If it means an extra 7 races a season, and more DH tracks because of the increased public interest....YES!!!!

Even road cycling have promo girls and boring thank the sponsors interviews, and you seem to like it quite a bit. ;)

 

I'll pass on the fireworks.

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If it means an extra 7 races a season, and more DH tracks because of the increased public interest....YES!!!!

Even road cycling have promo girls and boring thank the sponsors interviews, and you seem to like it quite a bit. ;)

 

I'll pass on the fireworks.

Haha. I was referring to Supercross.

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