FTP W/kg - which weight are we talking about?

[mecheng89]

Hi Hubbers!

 

Hope everyone had a great long weekend filled with quality time with family, and a few miles on the bike as well!

 

Being relatively new to power training, and the obsession with weight and your power-to-weight ratio, can someone please clarify what weight they are talking about? Is it your body weight alone (birthday suit) or you, your bike, all of your kit, and water bottles, and whatever goodies you might ride/race with (puncture repair etc.)?

 

Thanks!

[Grease_Monkey]

As far as I know - body weight. If not I have been doing it wrong for a while!

[Erroli8a8]

As far as i know and understand, it is your body weight. Most bikes etc wiegh prety much the same and are on the UCI weight limits so including bike weights has no relevance then.

[eddy]

I have found if I use my birthday suit weight as it was in 2009 my numbers look much better so I will just keep on using that.

[Rudi Pollard]

I use only my body weight as the other variables on my bike and kit remains constant. Thus any improvement in my w/kg number is either me pushing more watts, or a function of losing weight.

 

I don't compare my numbers to other cyclists, but if you want to I would guess that a more accurate calculation will be to take total weight(Body Weight + Bike Weight + Kit + Spares + water bottles etc.).

[madmarc]

I did a Cadence course some years back, they use your body weight right before you do the FTP test, and measure your improvement from there. But its an interesting concept, if you were looking to upgrade your bike to reduce it's weight, it would be an idea to see how much improve ment you would gain against what you are going to spend. Spending hobos of cash on a new set of wheels for instance might give you 2 or 3 % improvement against simply losing 4 or 5 kg in weight might be a lot cheaper.

[Patchelicious]

You can use whatever number you want...

 

But if you want to compare it to quoted numbers, the standard is your (60 minute effort / body weight).

 

People also often use their 20min Test Effort, you can do this if you want but then compare that to your previous 20 min test effort.

 

The big thing about training with power is using constants. Same metrics and power meters for accurate comparison is more important for true self improvement.

 

 

Comparison to others, 60min Effort and Body Weight.

 

Edit: Also, use power to weight for YOUR benefit, don't let it become like a braggy golfers "adjusted" handicap. You only fool yourself by cutting corners

Edited April 18, 2017 by Patchelicious

[Vetplant]

I did a Cadence course some years back, they use your body weight right before you do the FTP test, and measure your improvement from there. But its an interesting concept, if you were looking to upgrade your bike to reduce it's weight, it would be an idea to see how much improve ment you would gain against what you are going to spend. Spending hobos of cash on a new set of wheels for instance might give you 2 or 3 % improvement against simply losing 4 or 5 kg in weight might be a lot cheaper.

Agreed. But that would require lifestyle changes, which people rarely do in the long run. Thus the reason that component manufacturers make a killing with lighter parts.

[Eon du Plessis]

Agreed. But that would require lifestyle changes, which people rarely do in the long run. Thus the reason that component manufacturers make a killing with lighter parts.

Also, not everybody has 5kg to lose. I'm 183cm and weigh 69kg. At 64kg, I'd have to lose some muscle mass, not that I have tons to begin with.

 

 

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[Vetplant]

Also, not everybody has 5kg to lose. I'm 183cm and weigh 69kg. At 64kg, I'd have to lose some muscle mass, not that I have tons to begin with.

 

 

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Very true. I am speaking to people who fit my profile TBH.

 

I am 188m, currently sitting at 94kg, but I was down to 89.9kg's in Jan 2016 after just eating proper food and avoiding the bread and junkfood, so I have no excuse.

 

I know it is probably possible to get to 86 with a bit of effort, which would make it much easier to stick with the groups on climbs. However, put me on a flat course like Emperors and this Diesel Engine will happily roll along with the bunch for hours on end.  

[Fat Boab]

Also, not everybody has 5kg to lose. I'm 183cm and weigh 69kg. At 64kg, I'd have to lose some muscle mass, not that I have tons to begin with.

 

 

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I'm interested in why you would have to lose muscle to go from 69 to 65kg? Presumably your body fat is less than 7%? 

[mecheng89]

So the consensus so far seems like it's pure body weight. 

[Patchelicious]

So the consensus so far seems like it's pure body weight.

It's not a consensus.... its the standard.

 

"To work out your power-to-weight ratio figure, simply divide your maximum power output (in watts) by your body mass in kilograms (kg). For example, an 80kg rider with a maximum sustainable power output of 280 watts has a power-to-weight ratio of 3.5 watts per kilo (commonly abbreviated as 3.5W/kg or 3.5W.kg-1)"

Edited April 18, 2017 by Patchelicious

[madmarc]

My take on improving w/kg

 

Its not about only reducing your weight, this might help to a degree but eventually you will also start losing muscle mass, and strength will be lost as well. its about converting fat to muscle, and muscle is heavier than fat, so from your first FTP test you should also have a measurement of your body fat content. More focus on reducing the fat content ie. how much fat have you converted to muscle. This of course if you have fat to lose or convert. Skinny guys with a healthy body fat content can only really improve by improving the strength of their muscles. So strength training in the gym is just as important as fitness training on the bike. The ratios of losing fat / increase muscle mass / strength training & fitness training have to be maintained to achieve that sweet spot.

 

I use 20 min FTP to get w/kg as well as my ave HR for every test to get an accurate measurement of my improvement.

[Patchelicious]

My take on improving w/kg

 

Its not about only reducing your weight, this might help to a degree but eventually you will also start losing muscle mass, and strength will be lost as well. its about converting fat to muscle, and muscle is heavier than fat, so from your first FTP test you should also have a measurement of your body fat content. More focus on reducing the fat content ie. how much fat have you converted to muscle. This of course if you have fat to lose or convert. Skinny guys with a healthy body fat content can only really improve by improving the strength of their muscles. So strength training in the gym is just as important as fitness training on the bike. The ratios of losing fat / increase muscle mass / strength training & fitness training have to be maintained to achieve that sweet spot.

 

I use 20 min FTP to get w/kg as well as my ave HR for every test to get an accurate measurement of my improvement.

 

Your 20 minute effort is NOT your FTP. Its a measurement that can be used for training, but its NOT your FTP:

 

"Functional Threshold Power (FTP) represents your ability to sustain the highest possible power output over 45 to 60 minutes, depending on whether you're a trained athlete or not. As a result 95% of the 20 minute average power is used to determine FTP."

 

​So by all means use it, but don't quote it as your FTP.

Edited April 18, 2017 by Patchelicious

[Eon du Plessis]

I'm interested in why you would have to lose muscle to go from 69 to 65kg? Presumably your body fat is less than 7%?

Not less than 7% currently, but it definitely would be if I dropped 5kg.

It's super unhealthy to go to low single digit body fat numbers, and body builders will tell you how they lose muscle mass when cutting, if they are not super careful with diet and training.

 

At my lightest I was 63kg. That was quite some time ago though.

 

 

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