The Veganism Thread

[Gen]

Speaking of replacements for leather what are vegans who regard the planet as much as animals using?

[Rocket-Boy]

You and me both.

 

I'm it a big fan of any diet that cuts out food groups.

 

I'm also not a big fan of anything "all or nothing". I have cut out around 85% of my meat consumption and I'm happy with that. I don't understand the need to be 100% vegan/vegetarian or anything really.

Yup, variety is the spice of life. The idea of having to cut something out of your diet that isnt harmful to you seems like denying yourself some variety.

[FrankG]

Surely you wouldn't use synthetic leather that has PVC in it.. can't save the animals and help kill the earth..all that petrolium that goes into plastic[emoji848]

 

 

Edit..all the water that is used and pollution that goes hand in hand with the production?

 

I try to reduce my environmental footprint, but I'm fully aware I cannot eliminate it.

[Goodbadugly]

I try to reduce my environmental footprint, but I'm fully aware I cannot eliminate it.

Hopefully you do it by NOT eating products imported from other countries. The carbon footprint of transport is huge. 

[Gen]

I try to reduce my environmental footprint, but I'm fully aware I cannot eliminate it.

I do respect people and their choices..but they need to be fully aware of the impact of their choices....if the entire human population went vegan there will be ramifications the planet as well..in one way or another..grazing land become cotton fields...the factories will still be polluting..water will still be wasted in the production process..people must not be naive.. petrolium will still be used for all those synthetic fabrics

 

Animals will still come off second best IMO..then there is their habitats that will change..cattle breed...grazing land will be needed for more and more cattle....now what do you do..you have more cattle than ever before..they aren't being looked after and left to roam..do you now introduce more predators. .. these cattle have been bred to be used to getting medicine and having tick cream put on them etc to prevent illness..now they aren't getting that..have you seen how a cow suffers when it is ill....what do you think would happen if all the poultry now get to roam..it is great they are free but these chickens are incredibly susceptible to illness..they die right there and a scavenger feeds on the carcass and also gets ill and dies and illness spreads..and animals still die.

 

 

It is just not that easy for everyone on earth to be come Vegan..and I am afraid a lot of people are very short sighted when it comes to it.

Edited November 28, 2018 by Gen

[FrankG]

Hopefully you do it by NOT eating products imported from other countries. The carbon footprint of transport is huge. 

 

Out of interest, are you concerned about your carbon footprint?

[FrankG]

these cattle have been bred to be used to getting medicine and having tick cream put on them etc to prevent illness..now they aren't getting that..

 

Please tell me you're joking with this comment 

[Gen]

Please tell me you're joking with this comment

Have you not seen a farmer put cream/grease on cattle to deal with ticks..I spent a whole weekend on a small farm putting tick grease on cows to get rid of ticks..

 

I learnt a whole lot about ticks that weekend...it is a whole process..first sprayed then tick grease is applied on any ticks on the cows to get rid of ticks.

 

 

And cows from different areas have different type of tick problems..it was actually rather educating..I can confirm cattle are very complicated ...and definitely not for me.

Edited November 28, 2018 by Gen

[FrankG]

Have you not seen a farmer put cream/grease on cattle to deal with ticks..I spent a whole weekend on a small farm putting tick grease on cows to get rid of ticks..

 

I learnt a whole lot about ticks that weekend...it is a whole process..first sprayed then tick grease is applied on any ticks on the cows to get rid of ticks.

 

 

And cows from different areas have different type of tick problems..it was actually rather educating..I can confirm cows farming is very complicated ...and definitely not for me.

 

 

I think you'll find the primary reason tick cream is put on cows is because they are an expensive investment and to minimise unnecessary complications. I very much doubt cows, like most wild animals, would go extinct due to a lack of tick cream.

[Gen]

I think you'll find the primary reason tick cream is put on cows is because they are an expensive investment and to minimise unnecessary complications. I very much doubt cows, like most wild animals, would go extinct due to a lack of tick cream.

You are completely missing the point..no-one said extinct.. but there is def serious issue when animals that have been bred for human consumption that have for a very long time been protected from disease be it antibiotics or any other outside assistance are all of a sudden left alone..yes in time they adapt but it will take many deaths and the weak will die first..but as a Vegan I am sure you don't want any more animal deaths, if you don't see that or won't see that then I honestly don't know.

 

Back to ticks they are a huge problem for farmers esp small scale farmers...

 

 

But hey they can always use their land and chop down all the trees where the cattle grazed and grow cotton.[emoji6]

Edited November 28, 2018 by Gen

[FrankG]

You are completely missing the point..no-one said extinct.. but there is def serious issue when animals that have been bred for human consumption that have for a very long time been protected from disease be it antibiotics or any other outside assistance are all of a sudden left alone..yes in time they adapt but it will take many deaths and the weak will die first..but as a Vegan I am sure you don't want any more animal deaths, if you don't see that or won't see that then I honestly don't know.

 

Back to ticks they are a huge problem for farmers esp small scale farmers...

 

Respectfully disagree.

Edited November 28, 2018 by FrankG

[Wayne Potgieter]

Look, I see Gens Point to be honest.

 

If the whole planet switched to veganism, then there would be heaps of animals that would essentially have no purpose. 

 

However, I think its an argument that wont happen. For the simple reason that the whole planet WONT go Vegan at the same time.

 

In a perfect situation it would happen gradually as people start their own journey and farmers would simply have to match animal production to match the need of consumers. As the need decreases, so the production would decrease.

 

From a planetary persepective, it is well documented on how harmful commercial animal agriculture is to the environment. But the solution is not an "all or nothing" approach. Simply reducing the amount of animals being farmed will have a profound effect on the environment.

 

If each omnivore decreased from 7 days a week worth of meat to 3, we would reduce the harmful impact SIGNIFICANTLY.

[Gen]

Look, I see Gens Point to be honest.

 

If the whole planet switched to veganism, then there would be heaps of animals that would essentially have no purpose.

 

However, I think its an argument that wont happen. For the simple reason that the whole planet WONT go Vegan at the same time.

 

In a perfect situation it would happen gradually as people start their own journey and farmers would simply have to match animal production to match the need of consumers. As the need decreases, so the production would decrease.

 

From a planetary persepective, it is well documented on how harmful commercial animal agriculture is to the environment. But the solution is not an "all or nothing" approach. Simply reducing the amount of animals being farmed will have a profound effect on the environment.

 

If each omnivore decreased from 7 days a week worth of meat to 3, we would reduce the harmful impact SIGNIFICANTLY.

Yep very true about the negative impact of commercial animal agriculture..the best solution for the problems our beautiful planet is to cull the human population [emoji6]

[Wayne Potgieter]

Yep very true about the negative impact of commercial animal agriculture..the best solution for the problems our beautiful planet is to cull the human population [emoji6]

Actually, I completely agree.

 

I saw this on Facebook a while ago and if its on facebook it must be true.

 

Seriously though, if this information is reasonably accurate, thats a pretty scary reflection of how harmful humans are as a species.

 

 

I think we are pretty lucky here in NZ. Most of our energy (over 85%) is renewable. We have great Vegan options and our electric car market is really strong (we love our little EV)

 

Granted, none of these things are silver bullets that stop our harmful impact, but they are better than nothing.

 

Perhaps we can start a side thread for vegan recipes and food? I dont want to distract from the evidence based debate on this thread, but its always good to see what others are cooking?

 

[Gen]

Actually, I completely agree.

 

I saw this on Facebook a while ago and if its on facebook it must be true.

 

Seriously though, if this information is reasonably accurate, thats a pretty scary reflection of how harmful humans are as a species.

 

da1ed6ffe391e1245dc749dd5af47bbe.jpg

 

I think we are pretty lucky here in NZ. Most of our energy (over 85%) is renewable. We have great Vegan options and our electric car market is really strong (we love our little EV)

 

Granted, none of these things are silver bullets that stop our harmful impact, but they are better than nothing.

 

Perhaps we can start a side thread for vegan recipes and food? I dont want to distract from the evidence based debate on this thread, but its always good to see what others are cooking?

 

download.jpg

Ja.. people mess up everything.

[Skubarra]

*Someone starts having a heart attack*

 

Person: Is anyone here a doctor!?!

 

Vegan: I'm a vegan.

 

 

 

 

Ok, as you were, back to the thread..