Suikerbossie traffic lights & general road safety

[andreas17777]

Moderator note 

Split out from the following topic: https://community.bikehub.co.za/topic/179610-rider-down-on-suikerbossie/

 

I'm actually quite surprised there's not more being said on here about him going through a red light.  There's no excuse for having your head down and not looking at a traffic light.
Usually when a car driver is even slightly at fault everyone wants blood, but when the cyclist is at fault it's just glossed over.
A robot will go orange before it goes red, and even then there are a few seconds before the other side of the intersection turns green and usually a few more seconds before the car has pulled out far enough into the road for the rider to go into it.  After all of that to go into a car at 70km/h is inexcusable.

I Agree, you have enough time to brake when the robot turns yellow, even at 70km/h.

[Zub]

I'm actually quite surprised there's not more being said on here about him going through a red light. There's no excuse for having your head down and not looking at a traffic light.

Usually when a car driver is even slightly at fault everyone wants blood, but when the cyclist is at fault it's just glossed over.

A robot will go orange before it goes red, and even then there are a few seconds before the other side of the intersection turns green and usually a few more seconds before the car has pulled out far enough into the road for the rider to go into it. After all of that to go into a car at 70km/h is inexcusable.

Having your head down on any road that's open to traffic is inexcusable.

 

Once my neighbour had his head down while on a flat doing about 30kmh and was oblivious to a stationary bakkie with scaffolding extending out the back. Frame snapped in half at top tube and down tube with severe bruising on legs and ribs. Luckily no serious or head injuries.

 

So unfortunate and should definitely be a lesson to all of us. There may not have been enough time to stop, but I saw where the cyclist hit the van, and had he gone slower by even 1 second he would have missed the van.

[Pure Savage]

I'm actually quite surprised there's not more being said on here about him going through a red light.  There's no excuse for having your head down and not looking at a traffic light.

Usually when a car driver is even slightly at fault everyone wants blood, but when the cyclist is at fault it's just glossed over.

A robot will go orange before it goes red, and even then there are a few seconds before the other side of the intersection turns green and usually a few more seconds before the car has pulled out far enough into the road for the rider to go into it.  After all of that to go into a car at 70km/h is inexcusable. 

As can be shown by this exact incident a cyclist jumping a red light causes no harm to anybody but the cyclist. "Everyone wants blood" I think the puddle at the scene has quenched everyones thirst. 

 

We know it was wrong just people dont feel like commenting, "He had it coming"

 

Also I doubt he was going 70km/h, at that point, unless I am hammering it only doing around 60 ish. I had that exact light change from green to orange on my on Thursday and from 60km/h I was still almost halfway through the junction after full brakes with sticky rubber. So if you miss the first second of that orange you are in the dwang. 

[Pure Savage]

I Agree, you have enough time to brake when the robot turns yellow, even at 70km/h. 

 

Not on that Suikerbossie robot, I didnt make it from 60km/h on Thursday with full anchors from the second it turned orange.

[DuncanCT]

Is this something PPA could get involved with? Requesting CoCT to clear bushes and increase the length of the orange? Hopefully something positive can come from it.

 

I think there are a couple of spots around the peninsula that could be addressed with small changes to make it slightly safer.

 

One being the two grates on main road that push you into the road to avoid. A small amount of tar of the left would allow a rider not to have to move out.

 

[Disylizzy]

That section of the road looks like a typical T-junction.  I've been guilty of running the red light there because I was going too fast to brake and didn't realise there's a road to the left as well.  And I have disk brakes.

 

I checked google maps and there is signage up showing a full intersection, but it's relatively far from the intersection itself, so not easy to make an informed decision while in a car, nevermind on a bike that doesn't always look for signage that far ahead.

 

The driveway is hidden by a bush, so the sight distance is also not on par with transportation engineering typical guidelines.  Not only should the driver be able to see conflicting traffic, but the traffic crossing the intersection should also be able to note a vehicle.

 

It was clearly an accident that could have happened to anyone.  But I would like to hope that the intersection itself would be improved to have adequate signage and road markings in place that everyone is aware of the hidden drive.

[DuncanCT]

Assume this is the intersection for anyone who's wondering...

 

 

Old setup, now has traffic lights.

Edited December 3, 2018 by DuncanCT

[Capricorn]

I'm actually quite surprised there's not more being said on here about him going through a red light.  There's no excuse for having your head down and not looking at a traffic light.

Usually when a car driver is even slightly at fault everyone wants blood, but when the cyclist is at fault it's just glossed over.

A robot will go orange before it goes red, and even then there are a few seconds before the other side of the intersection turns green and usually a few more seconds before the car has pulled out far enough into the road for the rider to go into it.  After all of that to go into a car at 70km/h is inexcusable. 

 

I'm with you on that one. seems ppl are more content to blame the bush and generalize the risk of an accident, which is relevant to the whole planet, not exceptional to the intersection in question. Reality is, an intersection must be shown respect by all road users, and that includes cyclists. We can't plead vulnerability, and then act as if we are invincible, that our desire to go into the deepest tuck possible is a higher priority than our safety. There's simply not enough margin of error to bake your cake and eat it.

end of the day; why was the cyclst in the intersection instead of waiting at the robot? But let's osfuscate by blaming the bush and keep quiet about what is apparently the real problem in this instance: poor judgement and road user behavior on behalf of the cyclist. Not the first, not the last.

[Bateleur1]

I'm actually quite surprised there's not more being said on here about him going through a red light.  There's no excuse for having your head down and not looking at a traffic light.

Usually when a car driver is even slightly at fault everyone wants blood, but when the cyclist is at fault it's just glossed over.

A robot will go orange before it goes red, and even then there are a few seconds before the other side of the intersection turns green and usually a few more seconds before the car has pulled out far enough into the road for the rider to go into it.  After all of that to go into a car at 70km/h is inexcusable. 

 

i don't know this traffic light but I know of a few that was in Pretoria that were nasty traffic lights.  In paticular one in Nelson Mandela dr.(R21).  Even if you were driving 60 in your car, when that thing went yellow, you had a snowballs chance in hell to stop before it went red (and yes it had a camera).  Took years before the council fixed it.

 

Intersections are dangerous. With or withou traffic lights.  Too many parameters.  Enter with caution.

[Geronimo]

That section of the road looks like a typical T-junction.  I've been guilty of running the red light there because I was going too fast to brake and didn't realise there's a road to the left as well.  And I have disk brakes.

 

I checked google maps and there is signage up showing a full intersection, but it's relatively far from the intersection itself, so not easy to make an informed decision while in a car, nevermind on a bike that doesn't always look for signage that far ahead.

 

The driveway is hidden by a bush, so the sight distance is also not on par with transportation engineering typical guidelines.  Not only should the driver be able to see conflicting traffic, but the traffic crossing the intersection should also be able to note a vehicle.

 

It was clearly an accident that could have happened to anyone.  But I would like to hope that the intersection itself would be improved to have adequate signage and road markings in place that everyone is aware of the hidden drive.

 

It was also an accident that could have been avoided. Hope the rider makes a full recovery 

[Disylizzy]

so to Cap and Geronimo, I agree with you on all accounts.  But there is a reason why there is a faction in engineering called Transportation Engineering.  People are inherently stupid in general and there are general guidelines set forth for road users to make informed decisions when approaching an intersection or any other geometric designs that are prevalent in today's road infrastructure.

 

If these guidelines aren't followed, then accidents can and will happen.  

Edited December 3, 2018 by Disylizzy

[lechatnoir]

I'm actually quite surprised there's not more being said on here about him going through a red light.  There's no excuse for having your head down and not looking at a traffic light.

Usually when a car driver is even slightly at fault everyone wants blood, but when the cyclist is at fault it's just glossed over.

A robot will go orange before it goes red, and even then there are a few seconds before the other side of the intersection turns green and usually a few more seconds before the car has pulled out far enough into the road for the rider to go into it.  After all of that to go into a car at 70km/h is inexcusable. 

 

Especially there - it's one of those robot intersections that stay green until triggered by someone driving over the loop in the road surface to change the signal. The robot at the bottom of Suikerbossie is the same, so if you see it turn orange, you KNOW there's someone coming in the side at some point. It's a terrible situation. I hope the rider doesn't pay the ultimate price.

[porqui]

Orange lights are just too short in CT. There is no way you can come to a stop at 60km/h on a downhill in such a short time or distance. I am always amazed at the speeds that some of us go down many hills in CT and some sections are blind too. My cycling changed when I came upon a fallen cyclist on the Flora Bay corner bottom of Chappies. How many of you have TESTED your STOPPING abilities on a downhill? You will be unpleasantly surprised. One should practice it. And it matters not what brakes you have - ABS might help (next development).

 

Strongs to the rider and driver.

[Headshot]

Assume this is the intersection for anyone who's wondering...

 

Capture2.JPG

 

Old setup, now has traffic lights.

I just looked at street view the whole way down - 2017 according to Google - and no traffic lights. This must be a recent change. Also shows when last I rode down Suikerbossie...

[BigDL]

Speed limit is only a maximum. Are you not expected to drive at a speed that is safe according to the conditions and the vehicle that you are in? So if you can’t stop quick enough at sixty if the light changes, then by law you should be going slower??

[Pure Savage]

I just looked at street view the whole way down - 2017 according to Google - and no traffic lights. This must be a recent change. Also shows when last I rode down Suikerbossie...

There are now 3 sets of robots on the south side now.