Me and THE coach

[Pulse]

R25k is for the course in Aigle and includes accommodation and food if memory serves - the SA based courses are much cheaper.

 

The 2019 Aigle based courses are closer to R36k now!

This was for the Jhb course. Only included course, tea/coffee and lunch. No accomodation/etc.

[Eldron]

This was for the Jhb course. Only included course, tea/coffee and lunch. No accomodation/etc.

 

https://www.cyclingsa.com/news-and-press/2018/10/19/uci-level-1-coaching-course-gauteng-in-novdec

 

R4,000

 

Edit: R25k for this one: https://www.cyclingsa.com/news-and-press/2018/5/7/uci-level-1-level-2-coaching-course-gauteng-in-june

 

Sooo I dunno :-)

 

Edit edit: R25k is for Level 1 AND 2.

Edited March 10, 2019 by Eldron

[Pulse]

https://www.cyclingsa.com/news-and-press/2018/10/19/uci-level-1-coaching-course-gauteng-in-novdec

 

R4,000

 

Edit: R25k for this one: https://www.cyclingsa.com/news-and-press/2018/5/7/uci-level-1-level-2-coaching-course-gauteng-in-june

 

Sooo I dunno :-)

 

Edit edit: R25k is for Level 1 AND 2.

Also saw that now... still a bit steep.

[Dubber]

 6 weeks later after my first training block on TR and there was 0 improvement(i actualy went backwards) also the reason for the coach

So TR has to accommodate everyone - armchair cyclists through to serious enthusiasts...  So the first block of base is really just that - base.  You do a ramp test after it but very few see any improvement in FTP.  This should make sense to anyone who has done this first block - you do very little Anaerobic or Strength work.  Everything is about aerobic work, form, technique and efficiency.   The second block of base does a little more over/under work which could start impacting your FTP.  And then Build phase is where the major work takes place...

 

How are you doing your training sessions?  Indoors on rollers - or smart trainer?  Outdoors with Power meter?  If indoors, do your best to make things as comfortable as possible.  Big fan, computer/TV, music etc - they all help.

 

That all said, your 'Coach' doesn't sound up to the task (just from the info you've given).  A coach is there to er, uh, coach you.  Not just give you a training plan - you can get that on Trainer Road, Zwift etc.  Even an entry level coach price plan should give you some sort of feedback.    Even if not giving feedback on individual workouts, they should at least give you an explanation as to why they aren't adjusting your workouts when you have told them that you can't complete them (they may have a valid reason - but they need to tell you).

 

For a coach / athlete partnership to work there needs to be buy in from both parties.  Looking at this thread it seems you have your doubts and there also seems very little investment from the coach side.  I can't see this working out I'm afraid.

[wessie12]

So TR has to accommodate everyone - armchair cyclists through to serious enthusiasts... So the first block of base is really just that - base. You do a ramp test after it but very few see any improvement in FTP. This should make sense to anyone who has done this first block - you do very little Anaerobic or Strength work. Everything is about aerobic work, form, technique and efficiency. The second block of base does a little more over/under work which could start impacting your FTP. And then Build phase is where the major work takes place...

 

How are you doing your training sessions? Indoors on rollers - or smart trainer? Outdoors with Power meter? If indoors, do your best to make things as comfortable as possible. Big fan, computer/TV, music etc - they all help.

 

That all said, your 'Coach' doesn't sound up to the task (just from the info you've given). A coach is there to er, uh, coach you. Not just give you a training plan - you can get that on Trainer Road, Zwift etc. Even an entry level coach price plan should give you some sort of feedback. Even if not giving feedback on individual workouts, they should at least give you an explanation as to why they aren't adjusting your workouts when you have told them that you can't complete them (they may have a valid reason - but they need to tell you).

 

For a coach / athlete partnership to work there needs to be buy in from both parties. Looking at this thread it seems you have your doubts and there also seems very little investment from the coach side. I can't see this working out I'm afraid.

100% correct. Your coach must take you through your training program and explain the different blocks and the desired impact it should have on your fitness. No point doing something and you don't no why.

[Help.Me.]

Thanks for all the feed back. I will make contact with him and ask for "more/better" feedback. We will have to discuss the road forward...

[J Wakefield]

I am using him for 4 weeks now...

 

 

You will see almost no progress in 4 weeks, often you may see a regression in form due to being on a program. 3 months is typically the period you will see a very small change in fitness. 

 

I can't comment on his feedback etc but TSS scores are just that, an indication don't chase tss, don't use that as a holy grail metric for training. However, if you not hitting targets set out and they are simply out of reach, then you need to adjust values. 

 

Indoor vs outdoor you will typically see a 10% variance in power, What power meter are you using to record power? Kikr? PM on bike? Are they calibrated correctly? Rollers? You will never hit and sustain big values on those.

 

small things need to be accounted for but sounds like something is a miss here between both of you. You paying for a service, doesn't matter if it is a R5000 or R500 a month program, prescription has to be correct and values to track and monitor. If not, you both wasting time.

 

I would make contact with the coach and respectfully air your concerns and take it from there. if you not happy, move on and get the service you wish for, you deserve it and don't label all coaches with the same brush after this experience. 

 

If you need some advice please feel free to message me. 

 

John

[Ryno.]

Your coach isn't perhaps a certain mr Sven Lauer UCI certified coach?

[Help.Me.]

Your coach isn't perhaps a certain mr Sven Lauer UCI certified coach?

Hahaha i was waiting for this one!! Maybe one will never know!!

[Dubber]

You will see almost no progress in 4 weeks, often you may see a regression in form due to being on a program. 3 months is typically the period you will see a very small change in fitness. 

 

 

John

I'm glad you replied John - I was hoping someone of your caliber would give your two cents.

 

Help.Me - if you don't know Mr Wakefield, just know that he is well placed to give advice.

 

From my limited experience the biggest thing for a cyclist on a training program is being able to trust the process.  Trusting the process when your figures are going down is not easy.  That is why your relationship with the coach is so important.  You have to believe that what he is doing is correct and have faith that in 3 or 4 months time you will see a difference.  

[dave303e]

First of all as mentioned above comms are key, I went from an FTP of 3,5 to an ftp of 3,9 in 3months with a coach, yes it was mostly just some actual focus and input but you should see some improvement esp if it is your only sport. The above was done with only 2 sessions a week.

 

 

Not to derail the OPs discussion, but..

I see the CSA/UCI coaching course presented in 2018 cost R25500 for a 6 day course

Are they crazy?!

 

It is not that crazy sadly, we sit with R20k courses to teach staff how to use software better, software that costs nearly R35k to buy and R10k/year after that...

[Help.Me.]

So TR has to accommodate everyone - armchair cyclists through to serious enthusiasts...  So the first block of base is really just that - base.  You do a ramp test after it but very few see any improvement in FTP.  This should make sense to anyone who has done this first block - you do very little Anaerobic or Strength work.  Everything is about aerobic work, form, technique and efficiency.   The second block of base does a little more over/under work which could start impacting your FTP.  And then Build phase is where the major work takes place...

 

How are you doing your training sessions?  Indoors on rollers - or smart trainer?  Outdoors with Power meter?  If indoors, do your best to make things as comfortable as possible.  Big fan, computer/TV, music etc - they all help.

 

That all said, your 'Coach' doesn't sound up to the task (just from the info you've given).  A coach is there to er, uh, coach you.  Not just give you a training plan - you can get that on Trainer Road, Zwift etc.  Even an entry level coach price plan should give you some sort of feedback.    Even if not giving feedback on individual workouts, they should at least give you an explanation as to why they aren't adjusting your workouts when you have told them that you can't complete them (they may have a valid reason - but they need to tell you).

 

For a coach / athlete partnership to work there needs to be buy in from both parties.  Looking at this thread it seems you have your doubts and there also seems very little investment from the coach side.  I can't see this working out I'm afraid.

Thanks Dubber, the TR base building do make sense. I am on a Kickr snap and do have all the necessary to make the training session more "bare able" I do have my doubts to be honest because some intervals are a joke and then there are the ones that i can barely do....i will have a serious chat with him and make a call from there. 

[Help.Me.]

You will see almost no progress in 4 weeks, often you may see a regression in form due to being on a program. 3 months is typically the period you will see a very small change in fitness. 

 

I can't comment on his feedback etc but TSS scores are just that, an indication don't chase tss, don't use that as a holy grail metric for training. However, if you not hitting targets set out and they are simply out of reach, then you need to adjust values. 

 

Indoor vs outdoor you will typically see a 10% variance in power, What power meter are you using to record power? Kikr? PM on bike? Are they calibrated correctly? Rollers? You will never hit and sustain big values on those.

 

small things need to be accounted for but sounds like something is a miss here between both of you. You paying for a service, doesn't matter if it is a R5000 or R500 a month program, prescription has to be correct and values to track and monitor. If not, you both wasting time.

 

I would make contact with the coach and respectfully air your concerns and take it from there. if you not happy, move on and get the service you wish for, you deserve it and don't label all coaches with the same brush after this experience. 

 

If you need some advice please feel free to message me. 

 

John

Thanks for the advice , i will take it day by day and see what happens.

[Help.Me.]

OK let me recap........

 

So i changed coaches, a while back all ready, and the willingness or eagerness with the new coach was much more evident. The coach is much more approachable and i do get very good feedback from him. We carried on with the "program"  and did some FTP tests and my FTP improved very nicely............

 

Now the "catch":  My training info is on Training Peaks and the previous coach set a CTL of 61 going into the 3 day stage race the 9th August. Now i know every body tells me don't chase numbers etc etc. My CTL at the moment is 55 but it is hovering between 49 an 53 for some time now. I have read that not to increase the CTL by more than 5 points per week to prevent injuries and maybe falling ill ? When i do my long 4 hours "recovery rides" on weekends i tent to have higher TSS scores than the program predicts. The next day my body will be aching and i am not a very happy camper.

So with this in mind thinking of doing a 3 day stage race i was very concerned if my body would be able to take the "hammering" . I then asked for a 2 day outside ride to be scheduled into my training program which was done on Friday and Saturday. The rides where supposed to be 3h30 each.

We did a 60 km ride with 1000 m climbing which took a very long time, we had a long coffee break and i battled with a flat tyre. The next day we where suppose to do a 55 km with 800 m climbing, i only managed 40 km with 450 m of climbing , i was hurting to much and had nothing in the tank........My partner is very fit and he took me out of my comfort zones both days. Is this "normal" ? I doubt now all the training i have done ?? What i have picked up on the second day i could not get my HR very high up?? Any advice suggestions please??

[Red Bird]

OK let me recap........

 

So i changed coaches, a while back all ready, and the willingness or eagerness with the new coach was much more evident. The coach is much more approachable and i do get very good feedback from him. We carried on with the "program"  and did some FTP tests and my FTP improved very nicely............

 

Now the "catch":  My training info is on Training Peaks and the previous coach set a CTL of 61 going into the 3 day stage race the 9th August. Now i know every body tells me don't chase numbers etc etc. My CTL at the moment is 55 but it is hovering between 49 an 53 for some time now. I have read that not to increase the CTL by more than 5 points per week to prevent injuries and maybe falling ill ? When i do my long 4 hours "recovery rides" on weekends i tent to have higher TSS scores than the program predicts. The next day my body will be aching and i am not a very happy camper.

So with this in mind thinking of doing a 3 day stage race i was very concerned if my body would be able to take the "hammering" . I then asked for a 2 day outside ride to be scheduled into my training program which was done on Friday and Saturday. The rides where supposed to be 3h30 each.

We did a 60 km ride with 1000 m climbing which took a very long time, we had a long coffee break and i battled with a flat tyre. The next day we where suppose to do a 55 km with 800 m climbing, i only managed 40 km with 450 m of climbing , i was hurting to much and had nothing in the tank........My partner is very fit and he took me out of my comfort zones both days. Is this "normal" ? I doubt now all the training i have done ?? What i have picked up on the second day i could not get my HR very high up?? Any advice suggestions please??

 

Check your TSB® and TSB for freshness. It could be that you pushed too hard too soon. Your ATL will indicate that. If ATL is much higher than CTL on a given day, then it will show that your TSB took a dive. Check your diet, especially after a high intensity ride. Try to get enough nutrients back into your body and put feet up. In addition to protein, it is also useful to get in some foods high in anti-oxidants as it helps to get rid of the lactic acid in the legs. Just my experience and some of my coach's advice.

[Help.Me.]

Check your TSB® and TSB for freshness. It could be that you pushed too hard too soon. Your ATL will indicate that. If ATL is much higher than CTL on a given day, then it will show that your TSB took a dive. Check your diet, especially after a high intensity ride. Try to get enough nutrients back into your body and put feet up. In addition to protein, it is also useful to get in some foods high in anti-oxidants as it helps to get rid of the lactic acid in the legs. Just my experience and some of my coach's advice.

If i look at the summary which i assume was for last weeks ride it looks like this CTL 55, ATL 74 and TSB -30.  I think there is a big problem with my nutrition, i do not take any "funny stuff" i had Game on the bike and PVW bars. I eat lots of droe wors....