Should cyclists pay road tax?

[MORNE]

here we go. 

 

So if you had the radio on this morning you would have heard the story about the dog(pet) tax the Overberg municipality in the WC is implementing for owning dogs. Then people phoned in and it quickly turned into a "these damn cyclist need to pay road tax instead" topic. Obviously there is an increase in cyclists on the road at the moment in the WC because of the upcoming CTCT so obviously the amount of people riding like complete chops are also high at the moment.

 

That got me thinking. Don't they maybe have a point though? Think about it. we are fast to say we are fellow road users and need to be treated as such...but also only when it suits us. You have to go write a k53 test for riding a motorcycle or car...regardless of what other license you already have. You need to apply for a PDP if you are going to transport people etc etc. All to make sure you know the rules of the road and how to properly operate the vehicle you intend to use on it.

Think about the person that has never done a k53 test or driven a car or motorcycle but is riding a bicycle on the roads. Where and how would they even know what halfthe painted symbols or signs mean? 

 

Now I know this is going to scratch where it does not itch for MANY....but maybe...just maybe this could be the way to start enforcing all sorts of rules from both sides of the spectrum.

if a cyclist is now a licensed road user....then more rules would have to be made and enforced in the spirit of road safety. From both sides. if a metro cop sees you riding two/three abreast or running a red light he would stop and fine you...because he can now and you are breaking an actual rule endangering yourself and others around you as an example. there are many more obviously.

 

Cycling lanes would perhaps receive more respect from other road users if cyclists become registered road users? they would have to learn about you in a k53 just as much as the other way around.

also...because you are now licensed and paying a "tax, fee, licence, levy"...would the powers that be not be forced to consider your safety even more? More infrastructure etc etc? More places to park and ride your bike legally? Being a registered road user could mean that you as a cyclist would have to be considered during the design phase of every single new road too....not just as an extra or afterthought as is mostly the case now.

 

anyway...i guess i can type and hypothesise about it more and what I have already typed here is by no means the full argument...but i'll leave that to you lol, I think it is an interesting topic.

 

PS...just in time for Friday too.

discuss

Edited January 30, 2020 by morneS555

[eddy]

When motorists start paying road tax, we can start talking about cyclists doing the same.

[Letum911]

Not too long ago you had to register a bicycle and pay your annual registration fees. 

 

But with that being said there are 2 classes of cyclists, those that train or choose to commute via bicycle and those that have no alternate form of transport.

• The majority of those that train or choose to commute via bicycle are already paying registration fees for their motor vehicle(s).
• Therefore everyday that they travel via bike, the get less and less value for money on the registration fee. Will this then be reimbursed?

With those that have no alternative form of transport: Who is the ass thinking that these people who already live on the bear minimum will be giving away money?

 

 

Now just to get to the basics here: Motorists do not pay "Road tax", they pay registration fees, licencing fees and fuel levies. 

[coppi]

Many years ago during bad old apartheid we paid pet and bicycle fees. Used to get a little metal disc that fitted on the seat bracket for all to see and pets carried disc on their collars........................

Edited January 30, 2020 by coppi

[MORNE]

When motorists start paying road tax, we can start talking about cyclists doing the same.

i think its is clear what was meant. dont get caught up in the semantics. you pay yearly to operate a vehicle on the road. you pay a tax when you buy said vehicle too. You pay tax on the fuel you buy...almost half of it in fact....so motorists are indeed paying tax to use roads.

[100Tours]

Many years ago during bad old apartheid we paid pet and bicycle fees. Used to get a little metal disc that fitted on the seat bracket for all to see and pets carries disc on their collars........................

 

I think this is the reason it will never fly - anecdotally the bicycle fees were largely implemented to discourage and reduce the numbers of black cyclists on the roads.

[MORNE]

ok then maybe refphrase....should cyclists who use the road be made to sit a cycling specific k53 test?

the argument of I already own a licence for my car is not a valid one....as you cant use that excuse when you get caught riding your GS1200 with only your code B card on you.

Edited January 30, 2020 by morneS555

[tinmug]

Get corruption and misuse of revenue under control, THEN we can chat about paying more tax. 

[braailegend]

Way back there used to be bicycle licenses, My dad's old bike still has a few of them on.

 

Im all for licencing, and then at least there is a foot to stand on for cycle lanes

[DieselnDust]

Road tax for cyclists must be an ANC idea

[MORNE]

Road tax for cyclists must be an ANC idea

actually it used to be an NP idea it seems haha. 

 

"they are becoming the very thing they swore to destroy"

[MORNE]

Way back there used to be bicycle licenses, My dad's old bike still has a few of them on.

 

Im all for licencing, and then at least there is a foot to stand on for cycle lanes

this is sortoff where my thinking is going too. remove yourself from the typical dystopian/South African mindset of everything is broken and unable to work for a few seconds.

Dont just think of it as buying a stamped badge for your bike and thats it.

 

if it is "legalised" - for the lack of a better word....with everything that goes hand in hand with that....maybe the net result would be more awareness towards cyclists as fellow road users, having to design and plan routes into roads for them to use, enforcing the rules on those routes....from both sides. 

 

making people pay just to use a bike is not the where the issue is. It is more of an issue about officially and legally justifying their existence on any given piece of road and forcing people to know what and what isnt legal/right....because we all what we do on bikes and whether or not we would do the same in a car or even a motorcycle.

it is almost like the ambiguity lies in the loopholes of the rulebook at the moment. are we road users or are we pedestrians? it is either or...you cant decide at a traffic light to jump a sidewalk or keep riding because the light is only for cars.... 

 

The guy that detests cyclists because he thinks they dont belong on the road might think twice to side swipe someone beause he will now have to consider a cyclist in the same light as say-a motorcyclist etc. Now you are the embodiment of everything that is wrong in their day and life and an easy target to takeit out on because "you dont belong there" "you are breaking the rules" "you ride like you own the road" "you are an entitled twat" lol.

Edited January 30, 2020 by morneS555

[eddy]

i think its is clear what was meant. dont get caught up in the semantics. you pay yearly to operate a vehicle on the road. you pay a tax when you buy said vehicle too. You pay tax on the fuel you buy...almost half of it in fact....so motorists are indeed paying tax to use roads.

 

Not getting caught up in semantics, or even trying to be controversial and certainly not wishing to pick a fight with you.

 

However, using your own argument, cyclists ALSO pay secondary taxes. We pay VAT on our bikes, spares and services, we pay import duties on the bicycles that are imported, etc. We are in a similar boat to motorists, just a smaller one. Or maybe in the same boat, just taking up less space and paying a bit less in turn.

 

My issue is not with you, but with people who do not understand the tax system and demand that cyclists should be taxed with a tax that does not exist for motorists.

[dave303e]

I wouldn't mind a Natis system for bicycles where a bike's VIN is linked to a person and it all becomes a bit more of a legal ownership which could possibly help with the theft of bikes and recovery of bikes. Ie a central database of bikes and owners and you can check if someone rightly owns a bike or flag a bike's VIN number as stolen.

 

As for dog registration I am 100% for it- few reasons:

All breeders have to take a dog back no questions asked(some of the breeding associations have this already- I know one breeder who drove to KZN to fetch a dog that was unwanted 8 weeks after the purchase because it was killing the racing pigeons)

This means that if all breeders will take a dog back then there is less pressure on shelters.

If you caught breeding without a breeding licence- fine payable to spca.

All dogs are monitored- you leave country you must prove where your dog is, don't just dump it.

All dogs registered must have inoculations on record( this will keep state vets from treating the same old things that should not be happening)

 

Dubai has it- literally no stray dogs and it is just better for dogs and humans alike.

 

Also if a dog has a tag you can spot it's owner not picking up it's poop in the park and report them for negligence so they can pay a fine to the SPCA. Too many upper class citizens just let their dogs dump anywhere in the park. Yes it is horrible to step in or cycle through. But also is an easy way to spread parvovirus.  

[cfcjim]

No. No and NO again.

 

Cycling is about freedom.

 

Do not advocate any curtailment to the joy that riding a bike brings.

[Skubarra]

Think you are conflating 2 seperate issues - bicycle tax & rider licencing.

 

No comment on rider licensing but on vehicle tax, the principle behind it is that each vehicle contribute to road maintenance based on the weight of the vehicle (how often and where you use the vehicle is irrelevant, bit like a tv license). So based on weight if a car licence is few hundred bucks than a bicycle license would be a few cents.

 

So if a bicycle license make me more legit in the eye of other road users, I would be very happy to pay my few cents per year.

 

But I doubt cyclists paying tax would make any actual difference in perceptions of motorists, it's just a convenient stick to hit us with.

 

Lastly, if some sort of tax is levied specifically to build bicycle lanes (and it is actually spent on bicycle lanes) I would wholeheartedly support it