Titan Cypher RS Ultimate - A bike I want to try!

[Furbz]

Thanks for your great review.

 

I also find that the Cypher 120mm just tracks so well when the going gets rough.

 

I'm well past the point of caring about times and racing so it's everything I need but I fully get why you would want something racier for your riding. It would have been interesting if you had swopped out the wheelset to something with faster rolling tubeless tyres for your ride as this seems to be the main sticking point.

 

fully agree.

i actually went as far as getting quotes.

for those who are interested

 

R25k for 30mm internal Nextie rims with tune hubs @ +-1385g

R31k for 28mm internal South Inc with tune hubs  @ +-1415g

 

the Reynolds sell for USD1200 odd. so you could/should get R14 or maybe R15k for them if sold new

[Furbz]

Riding 7-10 hours a week having competed half your life- The reason you can't hang with buddies is not the 2kg in bike weight, it is the 3,3W/kg. The 110K extra on the Spez will not close that gap either...

 

 

i've been off the bike for 2 months with badly broken ribs.

 

keep in mind i am comparing myself to a ride bud who currently weighs the same and has a FTP of 230w.

so i feel it was a fair comparison.

Edited February 25, 2021 by Furbz

[Jewbacca]

I do think that with a relatively low Power output FTP the 2kg does start to take it's toll over time on a ride.

 

I am 75kg and have an FTP over 300 and I like the way the bike accelerates up those little inclines probably because I have a bit more power to put down.

 

I do also agree that it's not an out and out race bike in 120mm mode.

 

In 100mm weight weenie mode with steeper angles I'm sure it's a different beast but I am 100% sold on 'down country'..... (I said it..... It's a thing)

[Showtime]

fully agree.

i actually went as far as getting quotes.

for those who are interested

 

R25k for 30mm internal Nextie rims with tune hubs @ +-1385g

R31k for 28mm internal South Inc with tune hubs  @ +-1415g

 

the Reynolds sell for USD1200 odd. so you could/should get R14 or maybe R15k for them if sold new

 

I don't think 1590g is porky. Faster rolling tyres running tubeless is all I had in mind for your test to match the slightly competitive nature thereof.

[DieselnDust]

TNT

29x2.35 57-622 Anthracite 745g 11A00017

 

Where to you get the 900g from? 

my scale

 

The 29.2.2 anthracite weighs 755gr on my  scale.

when I weighed the 2.35 at the lbs it was 879gr and 891 gr

I put them back on the shelf.

Other brand 2.35 to 2.4 were around 790 to 830 gr.

The Vittoria just seem to come up heavier in actual weight

Edited February 25, 2021 by DieselnDust

[Furbz]

I don't think 1590g is porky. Faster rolling tyres running tubeless is all I had in mind for your test to match the slightly competitive nature thereof.

 

When compared to where others are in the market these days its quite heavy for a 24mm internal diameter rim.

that said, you would have to shell out double the amount to get those lighter wheels. 

its still good value for money.

 

the Renold wheels felt felt solid. i did not notice any flex in them so they serve the purpose well.

[gerriemtb]

OK so it took a while to figure one out how best to convey my thoughts on the Titan Empire Carbon.

 

Let's get this review started by thanking Cyclelab's Seb and Titan Racings Team.

They really went out of their way to make it happen in a short space of time

 

First the bad stuff - and i am going to qualify this as all of the bad points boil down to whoever built the bike up not using due care.

Unfortunately the human element is something that happens from time to time and is tough to always mitigate.

These faults all are likely to the team rushing the demo bike out to me.

 

Thankfully support for all of this was on hand, without which i would not have felt comfortable working on the bike - thanks Cliff! (for those who do not know he is the head designer)

 

I collected a brand spanking new bike out the box - this actually worked in my favour as if i decided to take the bike i could just do a EFT and keep it. what a win! 

 

 

Here are my thoughts and comments:

 

First a list of things that went wrong or seem odd. Again all of the below manifested due to a poor build up/ Rushing the bike to me.

I do however feel they should be mentioned.

 

• Scratched rear derailleur on delivery. Cyclelab made note of this and promised it would be swapped out should I buy the bike (i suspect that when the derailleur was scratched the hanger was also slightly bent as I did struggled a little with the gears jumping in places, even after using the AXS micro adjust).

 

• The bike had the cable guide/clips being damaged and popping out on delivery. Again Cyclelab assure me this would be fixed. Again a sign that whoever put the bike together rushed the build and likely damaged them.

 

• All suspension bolts were loose, i mean all of them. This quickly manifested in a nasty ticking noise while i was bedding in the brakes and getting the bike setup dialled in. Nothing a torque wrench could not solve!

 

• Spacing bolts were inserted in-between the front brake calliper and fork mount. This meant the pads were effectively spaced to far away from the brake rotor and resulted in half of the pads making contact with the rotor. Again a quick fix. And again a sign whoever put the bike together had no idea what he was doing. 

 

• Mismatched bolts used to attach the front calliper – again an assembly issue and aesthetically not appealing on a new bike. 

 

• Mismatched headset spacers – 2 of them are matt the 3^rd gloss – another assembly issue and aesthetically not appealing on a new bike.

 

That said and out the way, in my mind all of the above should have no impact on making a sound judgement and decision on the bike and how it rides.

The above all boils down to poor assembly, nothing more nothing less.

 

The Rider

 

I am your average rider who gets anywhere between 7-10 hours of riding in each week. or roughly 4-6 rides a week.

 

33 years old

1.71m tall

70kgs

Current FTP 234

I have been riding bikes properly since i was 10 and competing in category racing on and off since i was 16.

 

My Current rig: 2014 Cannondale Scalpel with 120mm fork mod - 11.7kgs

 

30min of riding on my fathers new 2021 Spez Epic Evo (the R200k one) around Cradlemoon.

weight with pedals, bottle cages and a power meter - 10.7kgs 

 

Now the Titan Cypher Empire Carbon.

Weight with tubes, XT pedals, 2x bottle cages and a Garmin mount - 12.315kgs 

i expect after a tubeless conversion this will drop to 12.0 to 12.1kgs ish.

 

The frame and build.

 

The colours and paint job on this bike in real life is gorgeous.

I was initially not a fan of the colours, but that quickly dissolved upon seeing the bike in the flesh.

Online pictures really do this bike no justice.

 

Everything right down to the suspension bolts is beautifully crafted and leave you with the feeling that Titan must surely be making a loss selling this bike for R90k

 

It has the best of the best suspension (the exact same fork and shock that is present on the R200k Spez Epic Evo)

 

The XO AXS shifting is only 16grams heaver than that of the XX1 and uses the same internals. So you are getting the best shifting in the world and will never have to worry about sticky cables ever again. major plus!

 

The carbon Stylo crank is only 50-60grams heavier than a XX1 crank.

 

The middle of the road Reynold wheels are a bit porky at 1590g, and this coupled with the heavy but grippy Vittoria Barzo 2.35 tires makes for a slightly slower acceleration than one would get from a lighter set of hoops. more on this later.

Something worth noting is that Reynold has a decent crash replacement policy and warranty which is something that cannot be overlooked.

The 24mm internal diameter i initially felt was a bit old school, but as the frame can take a max 2.35 tires they are actually a pretty good match.

 

The only thing i am not a fan of, and this is the case with all new mtb bikes is the cheap rubber grips.

this seems to be the norm when buying any new mountain bike these days (including the R200k Spez bikes)

Its the most important contact point on the bike, why bike manufacturers put on cheap grips with zero padding is quite beyond me.

 

 

The Route.

 

I chose a route that brought a good mix of riding.

The route out to Cradlemoon emulated a standard ride most out us would be doing on a standard weekend and fairly  similar to what you could expect on a stage race.

the Cradlemoon yellow route was a good opportunity to test the bike under race conditions. As we all occasionally do these races i felt it a good idea to get a feel for its limitations here(it is a XC/Trail bike after all)

finally we rode home on the tar from Cradlemoon as our legs were poked!

 

4h26min

88km

1400m of climbing

avg speed 19.9km/h

 

https://www.strava.com/activities/4815483357

 

 

The Ride.

 

The bike rides beautifully.

I was able to test it in marathon type riding on the way out to Cradlemoon, on some technical downs and in a simulated XC race around the yellow route at Cradlemoon.

 

It’s astonishing how well this bike goes downhill. The grip is immense and the position and feel on the bike made me feel right at home right from the first moment i slung my leg over the bike.

On technical descents the Cypher Empire felt planted and tracked incredibly well.

Grip in the corners is sublime and i always felt i could have pushed harder in these areas.

 

We went down a well rutted section on our ride to Cradlemoon from the top of the cell tower down to the river and I felt I was taking it easy (I really was, it’s a test bike so I had to take care of it!).

Its suspension and tire combo more than making up for poor line choices when they cropped up.

At the end of that downhill section I was a good 100m ahead compared to others I was riding with on traditional XC bikes(2017 Yeti and 2019 Cannondale). 

This again came to light where i stopped and the let guys get ahead of me on the technical decent towards the gate on the yellow route at Cradlemoon.

Once again i made up enormous ground on the two ahead of me without ever feeling like a was not in control.

If anything i felt i could have gone much faster if i wanted.

The suspension, geometry and tire setup makes this bike ooze with confidence.

IMPRESSIVE.

 

 

Flats is much of a muchness, once the bike is rolling there is not much between the Titan and any bike really.

Except, when a mate asked my thoughts on the Titan and I rode up next to him in a field full of those nasty grass baby heads we love to hate. I held a conversation while riding over these if they were nothing.

The suspension is super plush and just soaked up the bumps.

Had I been on my Cannondale I would have been hunting better lines to avoid the bumps and save my hands.

On the Titan I had no need to do so which is superb and a true testament to the benefits of 120mm suspension.

This I feel is important to bring up as it’s the unspoken factor in performance. Everyone knows about aero and weight, but comfort is also a huge factor, finishing a stage with energy to spare vs feeling broken due to a bike beating you up is a big deal. 

Considering this test rig had tubes in it, a tubeless conversion could only add to the comfort.

The Cypher Empire delivers comfortable riding in bucket loads.

 

 

On the slightly negative side. and i say slightly only because i was asking a trail bike to keep up with a top of the line 2019 XC racing Cannondale.

 

Short sharp accelerations and uphills are ok but not this bikes best features. The extra weight can be felt.

Obviously this is more XC territory and that belongs to the XC 100mm version of the bike. So let’s take the below comments with a pitch of salt.

I do ride the occasional race so it was nice to see how it would performed in all facets.

 

The yellow route had my ride colleagues pushing hard as it just brings out more fun when riding hard.

this part of the ride was hard enough for me to say it was a good race simulation. 

I was constantly distanced by a mate who I know to be of equal FTP and weight (we did the test together 2 weeks ago and are within 4 watts of each other and 400g difference in body weight) his bike is also 2kgs lighter than the Empire (2019 Cannondale).

Short sharp uphills had me loosing 10-15m on other riders.

Longer hills had roughly the same amount of distance lost. you do feel like extra energy is needed to keep the bike rolling forward on the ups.

That said, the losses on hills are not bad for a bike that is 2kgs heavier with 120mm suspension, a dropper post and porky tubed wheels.

 

At 3 hours of riding/racing I also could no longer keep the pace of my ride colleagues, and dropped off through the forested section of the yellow route.

My matches had all been burnt keeping up with accelerations. It was not a bonk, rather I just could no longer accelerate as I had before and gave up on trying to keep up knowing there was a long ride home.

Now, this could have been me on a bad day, it could also be my mates having a good day. There are too many factors at play here to point to the bike as being the issue. it could also be that i have not been riding this hard in a long time.

 

Overall, the losses on the uphills were somewhat frustrating as I watched guys of equal fitness distance me. But that can be expected on a XC cross trail bike. In my mind a tubeless conversion and deleting the dropper (it’s really not necessary for JHB riding) would bring the bike down to a much more acceptable weight and likely make up for most of the losses experienced. 

 

 

Conclusion.

 

After the ride, a coke and a 2 hour nap my mate and I chatted things over to try make a decision on the bike.

 

We commended the bike on its ability to comfortably ride away from XC machines on the downs.

key word here being comfortably.

 

We put the losses on the uphills down to the extra 2kgs of weight - it cannot be overlooked.

It was noticeable the extra energy needed to get the bike up to speed in XC type terrain. My thoughts are most of that is due to the extra rotational weight on the tires, tubes and rim.

200g savings if you go tubeless, 200g on the rims, 150g on the tires. That a hefty amount of additional weight to get moving in stop start conditions.

Tires are also a contributing factor as my mate was running fast rolling, lighter 2.25 racing ralphs.

 

 

The Titan Cypher Empire is an incredible bike that is deserving of awards and admiration.

It’s a pity the vast majority of people put their faith in a name.

The value for money of the Titan is incomparable to anything else out there. PERIOD.

My thoughts are this bike is extremely undervalued (or the competitors extremely over-priced).

When (not if), Titan Racing becomes more established in the market this bike should be asking well over R130k no problems.

 

If you blindfolded me it would have been extremely difficult to differentiate between the Titan Empire and the Spez Epic Evo in the descents. a bike that costs R110k more!

This fact alone is remarkable for a R90k bike.

 

 

If i had to change anything is would be the wheels in search of a more responsive ride when pushing the racing limit.

 

Overall being young(ish) dumb and egotistical i personally will not be buying this bike.

Not being able to hang with my ride buddies is something that would bug me.

i did think this over plenty. Selling the dropper post and wheels and upgrading them would cost around an additonal R15k and result in a bike with 30mm internal wheels that would weigh roughly 11.7kgs. the same weight as my current 2014 Cannondale

 

If i could afford to have 2x mountain bikes; a dedicated XC racing machine and a more capable Trail bike the Titan would be my bike of choice over all others. there is just noting else that comes close to this value.

I would also likely ride the Titan Empire on 80% of my excursions.

Thank you for a good review, I enjoyed reading it!

[Blokman]

Furbs, I don't know if I missed it . What size did you ride , medium ? I'm the same height and weight. 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Blokman

[Showtime]

Furbs, I don't know if I missed it . What size did you ride , medium ? I'm the same height and weight. 

 

I'm also the same height and weight and I ride a medium. Just had to change the stem to 70mm to be 100% comfortable.

[Furbz]

Furbs, I don't know if I missed it . What size did you ride , medium ? I'm the same height and weight. 

 

I'm also the same height and weight and I ride a medium. Just had to change the stem to 70mm to be 100% comfortable.

 

i rode a medium.

small frame 29ers just do not ride as well that their medium counterparts.

Edited February 25, 2021 by Furbz

[Jewbacca]

I'm 1.75 at 75kg on a medium with 760mm bars and a 60mm stem....

[DieselnDust]

interesting,

 

my Scalpel's reach is 426mm (medium), I run a 70mm stem -6 degree drop with a zero rise flat bar 9 degree backsweep

1.72m short

71kg 

 

Interesting to see peeps who are taller with shorter overall reach figures

[Danger Dassie]

I'm 1.75 at 75kg on a medium with 760mm bars and a 60mm stem....

1.77 at 70kg, also on a medium. Changed to a 80mm stem and 730mm flat bars.

[Jewbacca]

interesting,

 

my Scalpel's reach is 426mm (medium), I run a 70mm stem -6 degree drop with a zero rise flat bar 9 degree backsweep

1.72m short

71kg 

 

Interesting to see peeps who are taller with shorter overall reach figures

I tried 780 bars with 70, 60 and 50mm stems, then the flat 760 bars with all 3.... 

 

I settled on the 60mm/760mm purely on overall feel.

 

I actually have no idea what the final numbers landed up being. I also rotated my bars to eliminate some of the sweep. It seems to work. I'm sure I will tinker at some point but not yet

[lukelockie]

I do think that with a relatively low Power output FTP the 2kg does start to take it's toll over time on a ride.

 

I am 75kg and have an FTP over 300 and I like the way the bike accelerates up those little inclines probably because I have a bit more power to put down.

 

I do also agree that it's not an out and out race bike in 120mm mode.

 

In 100mm weight weenie mode with steeper angles I'm sure it's a different beast but I am 100% sold on 'down country'..... (I said it..... It's a thing)

Guy, you need to stop reliving your glory days

[Jewbacca]

Guy, you need to stop reliving your glory days

hahahahaha

 

Shuttup