DehanL Posted March 29, 2021 Share Have you tried biokinetics? Actually not. Have you had any success with them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DehanL Posted March 29, 2021 Share Dr Craig Uria. Spine and Sport. The best in the business.Also came across his name online. Seems like someone who would have a good understanding of the bike/rider interface. Have you had any personal experience with him sorting out issues on the bike? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisF Posted March 29, 2021 Share Dehan there is a LOT more to bike fitting than a few angles .... Irma, in the Western Cape (sorry), spends about 30 minutes assessing YOU, only then does the bike fitting start. By which time she considers your unique issues to set up the bike to fit YOU. She also makes sugestions towards changes that could improve your riding ... to be checked against your comfort on the bike .... All considered. Follow John Wakefield's advise. aquaratza 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steady Spin Posted March 29, 2021 Share Actually not. Have you had any success with them?Before my back op i couldn’t walk anymore. They made huge progress and i was mobile again. Also did my rehab afterwards. https://bookmed.co.za/listing/mrs-liezl-muller-biokineticist/ Would definitely do that first before resorting to chiro. Edited March 29, 2021 by Steady Spin ChrisF 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DehanL Posted March 30, 2021 Share Dehan there is a LOT more to bike fitting than a few angles .... Irma, in the Western Cape (sorry), spends about 30 minutes assessing YOU, only then does the bike fitting start. By which time she considers your unique issues to set up the bike to fit YOU. She also makes sugestions towards changes that could improve your riding ... to be checked against your comfort on the bike .... All considered. Follow John Wakefield's advise. Thanks Chris. Will have a look next time I'm down in that side of the world. Agreed that bike fitting is more than just a few angles. I have been to a bike fit or two, and the guys have been great in fixing my position with respect to assessed range of motion. It does however feel like they struggle to deal with asymmetry, or at least the ones I've been to. It just grinds my gears that there seems to be A LOT of disagreement among professionals of whether to fit the human to the bike or the bike to the human. The physios tell me the former, and the bike fitters the latter. Think I'm going to try John's advise in the mean time! Edited March 30, 2021 by DehanL ChrisF 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DehanL Posted March 30, 2021 Share Before my back op i couldn’t walk anymore. They made huge progress and i was mobile again. Also did my rehab afterwards. https://bookmed.co.za/listing/mrs-liezl-muller-biokineticist/ Would definitely do that first before resorting to chiro. Bio definitely seems like someone to add to the list, then. The problem that I do have is that if sometimes feels these guys are really great at treating more sever or acute cases. When you go there being in perfect health, with the hope of fine tuning the machine for that last few percent, it just doesn't feel like they have a ton of experience or strategies to deal with that. That's just my experience Edited March 30, 2021 by DehanL aquaratza 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ouzo Posted March 30, 2021 Share Since the worm hole has been opened, I'll add my experience with Chiros. In high school I pulled a muscle in my back play squash. My dad was seeing a chiro at the time so he made me an appointment. Clicks here, and clicks there on a regular basis and my back only got worse. To the extent that I have suffered with back issues ever since.My dad also ended up having a back op to rectify his issues.None of the people we know that went to him ever had their issues resolved. About 10 years back I was spending way to much time on the couch and was have sever back pain. In desperation I went to another Chiro that was recommended to me. He seemed much more professional and jacked up. X-Rays revealed a twisted pelvis. Clicks here and there once a week. But the relief was temporary, a few hours later and I'd be in pain again. What eventually works is exercise and stretching, once the muscles are supple again the pelvis clicks itself back into position (sometimes with a slight persuasion) and generally stays in place much longer. So my uneducated by slightly experienced opinion is to rather do physio or bio and get a proper bike fit.Your symptoms sound to me like what my twisted pelvis felt like. Edited March 30, 2021 by ouzo aquaratza and DehanL 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_ Posted March 30, 2021 Share I'll build off Ouzos comment. (apols for continued derail...) If you have a pulled muscle - don't go to a chiro, thats not what they are for. If you have alignment / skeletal issues, go to a chiro. Any chiro worth his salt should be able to hear your symptoms, check out the bodies affected 'infrastructure' and diagnose. That could still well be a misbehaved (group of) muscles, in which case they should give you solutions; be it needling, manipulation, stretching, exercise, advice, etc. (I used the word 'should' a lot, we can all agree there are some bad apples out there) Even if some of those solutions are not in their wheelhouse I still reckon they know how a body is meant to function and align correctly. I sometimes left my appointments with more instructions on what to do by myself than actual work done in the session. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karnuffel Posted March 30, 2021 Share Note sure where exactly in Gauteng you are, but Ive used the following to people and they are nothing short of epic. For a chiro, you can contact Sunil Rama in Benoni. He is awesome and looking after quite a number of cyclists already. He does not just bend you into a new shape, he tries to work with the muscles first. His site is: http://ruleoutpain.co.za/ If you are looking for a biokineticist you can chat to Patricia Gouws in Bedfordview. She really knows her stuff and is a triathlete, so she understands us. Her site is: http://www.pgbiokinetics.co.za/ DehanL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisF Posted March 30, 2021 Share Bio definitely seems like someone to add to the list, then. The problem that I do have is that if sometimes feels these guys are really great at treating more sever or acute cases. When you go there being in perfect health, with the hope of fine tuning the machine for that last few percent, it just doesn't feel like they have a ton of experience or strategies to deal with that. That's just my experience As with any profession, not all "Bio's" were created equal .... Went to one in 2016 .... during the second session his intern student provided better input !! Last year, after the diagnoses of a torn meniscus, I went to another Bio. WOW !!!! Absolute worlds apart ! PS - the second one actually wanted to check my bike fit ! BUT, rather follow John's advise. The specialist will refer you to a physio or bio as YOUR needs dictate..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DehanL Posted March 30, 2021 Share Since the worm hole has been opened, I'll add my experience with Chiros. In high school I pulled a muscle in my back play squash. My dad was seeing a chiro at the time so he made me an appointment. Clicks here, and clicks there on a regular basis and my back only got worse. To the extent that I have suffered with back issues ever since.My dad also ended up having a back op to rectify his issues.None of the people we know that went to him ever had their issues resolved. About 10 years back I was spending way to much time on the couch and was have sever back pain. In desperation I went to another Chiro that was recommended to me. He seemed much more professional and jacked up. X-Rays revealed a twisted pelvis. Clicks here and there once a week. But the relief was temporary, a few hours later and I'd be in pain again. What eventually works is exercise and stretching, once the muscles are supple again the pelvis clicks itself back into position (sometimes with a slight persuasion) and generally stays in place much longer. So my uneducated by slightly experienced opinion is to rather do physio or bio and get a proper bike fit.Your symptoms sound to me like what my twisted pelvis felt like. Very helpful, thanks ouzo. My absolute expert self diagnosis is also some sort of weirdness going on with my pelvis being twisted. Glad to hear that stretching and exercise eventually sorted things for you. Hoping the experts can tell me what to stretch and exercise, and hopefully they agree, for once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DehanL Posted March 30, 2021 Share I'll build off Ouzos comment. (apols for continued derail...) If you have a pulled muscle - don't go to a chiro, thats not what they are for. If you have alignment / skeletal issues, go to a chiro. Any chiro worth his salt should be able to hear your symptoms, check out the bodies affected 'infrastructure' and diagnose. That could still well be a misbehaved (group of) muscles, in which case they should give you solutions; be it needling, manipulation, stretching, exercise, advice, etc. (I used the word 'should' a lot, we can all agree there are some bad apples out there) Even if some of those solutions are not in their wheelhouse I still reckon they know how a body is meant to function and align correctly. I sometimes left my appointments with more instructions on what to do by myself than actual work done in the session. My thoughts exactly. I'm hoping for a chiro who doesn't try to quick fix me, but rather to use his expertise to figure out what is not where it should be, and then enable me to fix it myself. So your last paragraph was really resonates with my expectations. Thanks for weighing in! Chris_ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudi-h Posted March 30, 2021 Share my take: I shared boxerulez's opinion until I learnt what they do... In short, I've had a load of crashes and injuries (fractured vertebrae, ribs, ankles, footbones + multiple tendon, ligament and muscle tears, dislocated knees and shoulders etc. etc. over the years). I've been to many good medical professionals and there's no one-stop shop. This is my (unqualified) understanding as someone who've been diagnosed and treated by the entire food chain of medical professions on many occasions: Dr / Specialist: Good with diagnosis of serious issues and obviously surgery, however be careful of the first surgeon who wants to dig a a knife into you, so get a second/third/fourth opinion before surgery. As good as surgeons are, they don't see 10% of the sports injuries out there and generally only deal with hard core issues, so I've heard of many tales where they told their patients something like "You'll never be able to compete in *insert sport here* again". So in my experience it's worth going to a physio, bio and chiro in addition to a surgeon for alternative opinions before quitting your sport or committing to surgery. Physio: They work on muscles, especially acute muscle issues such as tears, pulls, spasms etc. Great in the initial stages / first phase of rehab (injury or surgery) or if you have an obvious muscle issues / spasm etc. after a crash. Biokineticist: They also work on muscles, but not acute muscle soreness / spasm so it's different to a physio. They measure (good ones at least) individual muscle strength in relation to other muscles in your body and are therefore the best people to identify imbalances, lack of movement or lack of strength / activation in muscles etc.. Great for us cyclists who often learn to compensate over many years due to lack of strength somewhere in our bodies, and also an essential final step of the post-surgery rehab process Chiro: They work on the skeleton, so generally they can identify when joints aren't moving as they should or where full range of motion is not achieved on a joint level. I'm pretty new to this, but I've been referred by a biokineticist who said my issue is with restricted joint movement that causes muscle spasms, so fixing the muscles (i.e. going to a physio) only would never solve the root cause of the problem. Summary: Each of these professions see various injuries on a daily basis, and irrespective of their methods, they are uniquely skilled to help you identify or treat your issue. In their own right each one will have varying degrees of success depending on your specific issue, so saying that Physio's are better than Bio's or vice versa, or that Chiro's are bogus/pseudoscience would be a silly. If one doesn't work, try another and let them explain what they see, that info can help the next person to refine your diagnosis. Actually not. Have you had any success with them? Edited March 31, 2021 by rudi-h Steady Spin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniffie Posted April 7, 2021 Share North West Chiropractic. Dr Tjaart van der Merwe. If not the best in SA, then certainly one of the best. International athletes regularly consults with him. A very keen cyclist too. https://www.facebook.com/NorthWestChiropractic/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich thomas Posted February 7, 2022 Share Hi Dehan. Was wondering if you had and success and if so could share any references that have worked for you? Your issues sound very similar to mine. Except I now have some knee cartilage - from cycling - and despite some pro bike fits. Finding the right medical expert in the cycling field is proving quite challenging. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie NL Posted February 7, 2022 Share On 3/29/2021 at 2:22 PM, Steady Spin said: I'll second that. Matt really knows his stuff. And he rides himself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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