Table Mountain, WTF??.

[Headshot]

1 hour ago, TNT1 said:

What?

You think the clear escalation and continual antagonism between cyclists and SanParks didn't play a role in the way the rangers overreacted to Dlamini?

 

Do you think I'm condoning what they did? Cause I didn't say that. If you're serious with your post, can I ask if you're ignorant or too intellectually challenged in that you can't see the big picture here?

I'm pointing out that there is a clear escalation of this issue which results in injuries on both sides.

But I also think you're making things up. What "escalation and continual antagonism"  are you referring to? This incident happened a year or more after Dlamini and there are not daily reports of antagonism or incidents between rangers and cyclists. Do you even ride or hike on Table mountain?

[Jewbacca]

57 minutes ago, MintSauce said:

Jesus, calm down.

No, I'm not ignorant or intellectually challenged, but based on your initial reply, I was being serious. Your initial reply "Puts their overreaction to Dlamini into context now" in response to "According to a SANPaks spokesperson...SANParks rangers are being abused on a regular basis on the mountain by cyclists" would, to any reasonable human being, read as "Cyclists are abusing the rangers, no wonder they assaulted Dlamini"

If your thought process was as you stated in your second reply, then I apologise for reading your typed words at face value and not making assumptions about what you may or may not potentially have meant.

As for the escalation and where it started, I'm a Capetonian all my life and a mountain biker for 27 years. I'm only too aware of that. Let me tell you about an event that happened to an acquaintance about 15 years ago. He is an avid cyclist and trail runner who lived on Signal Hill at the time. On one of his early morning runs (not RIDES) he was running either from or to the Kramat on Signal Hill, in the dark, with a headlamp on, when he suddenly heard someone shouting at him, something along the lines of "I'VE GOT YOU! I'VE GOT YOU! YOU'RE NOT GETTING AWAY THIS MORNING!". When he got to the exit of the trail he was met by, at the time the lead ranger, who had assumed he was riding and went into a literal, fuming tirade about "YOU MOUNTAIN BIKERS!!!". It carried on for several minutes with him repeatedly pointing out that he was RUNNING and very clearly did not have a bicycle with him. I still remember him saying that this completely unreasonable, reactionary idiot was actually allowed to carry a gun, which he was at the time.

This was at a time when mountain biking was much less popular and there were far, far fewer of us on the mountain.

One gets the impression that SANParks sees cyclists riding illegal trails as criminals that must be caught at all costs, yet they don't seem to have the desire to catch muggers and murderers. You hardly ever see a ranger on the mountain, yet there have been two occasions where SANParks have declared that certain trails would be opened to cyclists and have then followed up by posting rangers at those specific points to catch riders. Were the riders I know of who got caught in two such cases on separate trails in the wrong for riding there? Yes, they were. But it speaks volumes of the attitude of SANParks that they would be so petty to go to such lengths to catch (and charge criminally in one case) riders trying to enjoy a trail that's going to be opened anyway in literally a few days.

As I see it, it's not the riders who were antagonistic. I'm not in any way condoning riding illegal trails, the assault on the rangers or the bad treatment they endure. In fact, I strongly condemn all of it. I make a point to always interact in a friendly manner with them and to thank them for their work and I ride legal trails only. However, if they want to know why they don't receive respect, they might want to consider how much they give the people they're supposed to be serving.

OK hang on...... They are HIRED as rangers to make sure people don't ride/hike/run on 'parks land where/when they aren't supposed to. They ARE NOT POLICE.

They are not hired to catch murderer and rapists. If runners/cyclists/hikers stopped behaving like entitled imbeciles they would have more time to patrol the more important areas.

SANparks catch a LOT of poachers and out of license fishermen. That is their job.

To aid in conservation by policing the relevant activities that may effect the natural habitat of the park.

Too many people ignore basic instruction then wonder why the resource is so thin. It's like single car users complaining about the traffic. YOU ARE THE TRAFFIC! Much like this, unfortunately as a collective WE ARE THE PROBLEM.

[Kranswurm]

1 hour ago, MintSauce said:

Jesus, calm down.

No, I'm not ignorant or intellectually challenged, but based on your initial reply, I was being serious. Your initial reply "Puts their overreaction to Dlamini into context now" in response to "According to a SANPaks spokesperson...SANParks rangers are being abused on a regular basis on the mountain by cyclists" would, to any reasonable human being, read as "Cyclists are abusing the rangers, no wonder they assaulted Dlamini"

If your thought process was as you stated in your second reply, then I apologise for reading your typed words at face value and not making assumptions about what you may or may not potentially have meant.

As for the escalation and where it started, I'm a Capetonian all my life and a mountain biker for 27 years. I'm only too aware of that. Let me tell you about an event that happened to an acquaintance about 15 years ago. He is an avid cyclist and trail runner who lived on Signal Hill at the time. On one of his early morning runs (not RIDES) he was running either from or to the Kramat on Signal Hill, in the dark, with a headlamp on, when he suddenly heard someone shouting at him, something along the lines of "I'VE GOT YOU! I'VE GOT YOU! YOU'RE NOT GETTING AWAY THIS MORNING!". When he got to the exit of the trail he was met by, at the time the lead ranger, who had assumed he was riding and went into a literal, fuming tirade about "YOU MOUNTAIN BIKERS!!!". It carried on for several minutes with him repeatedly pointing out that he was RUNNING and very clearly did not have a bicycle with him. I still remember him saying that this completely unreasonable, reactionary idiot was actually allowed to carry a gun, which he was at the time.

This was at a time when mountain biking was much less popular and there were far, far fewer of us on the mountain.

One gets the impression that SANParks sees cyclists riding illegal trails as criminals that must be caught at all costs, yet they don't seem to have the desire to catch muggers and murderers. You hardly ever see a ranger on the mountain, yet there have been two occasions where SANParks have declared that certain trails would be opened to cyclists and have then followed up by posting rangers at those specific points to catch riders. Were the riders I know of who got caught in two such cases on separate trails in the wrong for riding there? Yes, they were. But it speaks volumes of the attitude of SANParks that they would be so petty to go to such lengths to catch (and charge criminally in one case) riders trying to enjoy a trail that's going to be opened anyway in literally a few days.

As I see it, it's not the riders who were antagonistic. I'm not in any way condoning riding illegal trails, the assault on the rangers or the bad treatment they endure. In fact, I strongly condemn all of it. I make a point to always interact in a friendly manner with them and to thank them for their work and I ride legal trails only. However, if they want to know why they don't receive respect, they might want to consider how much they give the people they're supposed to be serving.

What has religion got to do with it.If anything, you are the one who should calm down from your original reaction

[MORNE]

1 hour ago, Pure Savage said:

snip

Anyway, people are terrible, had a 8 year old girl throwing rocks at geese at Kirstenbosch 2 weeks ago, not surprising that an adult would throw a rock at a SANPARK employee.

and you couldn't say anything (in the nicest possible 8y-old-friendly way) because then the parents get offensive and  end up throwing rocks at you lol. Thats SA in a nutshell for you. This place is broken on so many levels it's hard to put it down to anything specific. It's easier to just blanket-blame it all on the "A" word ????

[MORNE]

8 minutes ago, Kranswurm said:

What has religion got to do with it.If anything, you are the one who should calm down from your original reaction

I thought we were talking about some Spanish guy?  ☺️

ignore me, as you were.

 

Edited May 27, 2021 by MORNE

[Kranswurm]

2 minutes ago, MORNE said:

I thought we were talking about some Spanish guy?  ☺️

ignore me, as you were.

 

 

[MORNE]

1 minute ago, Kranswurm said:

 

Dave Gahan lining up everyone's wives in the front row for the afterparty....using only his hips.  

Well played sir...well played

[MintSauce]

22 minutes ago, Jewbacca said:

OK hang on...... They are HIRED as rangers to make sure people don't ride/hike/run on 'parks land where/when they aren't supposed to. They ARE NOT POLICE.

They are not hired to catch murderer and rapists. If runners/cyclists/hikers stopped behaving like entitled imbeciles they would have more time to patrol the more important areas.

SANparks catch a LOT of poachers and out of license fishermen. That is their job.

To aid in conservation by policing the relevant activities that may effect the natural habitat of the park.

Too many people ignore basic instruction then wonder why the resource is so thin. It's like single car users complaining about the traffic. YOU ARE THE TRAFFIC! Much like this, unfortunately as a collective WE ARE THE PROBLEM.

I know rangers are not the police, but SANParks manages safety and security on the mountain and it is their responsibility to ensure the safety of visitors.

[Jewbacca]

11 minutes ago, MintSauce said:

I know rangers are not the police, but SANParks manages safety and security on the mountain and it is their responsibility to ensure the safety of visitors.

Which is difficult to do if they constantly have to police a bunch of idiots who know better.

[TNT1]

57 minutes ago, Headshot said:

But I also think you're making things up. What "escalation and continual antagonism"  are you referring to? This incident happened a year or more after Dlamini and there are not daily reports of antagonism or incidents between rangers and cyclists. Do you even ride or hike on Table mountain?

Sure. It's all made up and cyclists and other users of these paths are blameless angels and the rangers are all dictators who are out to get them for no reason. 

 

My apologies. I'll retract anything I've said on it.

 

I assume you'll attend to the lies being printed in the media as well?

Quote

the increasing conflict between the public, the rangers and park management

That's from 2019. I assume there are more made up stories in the press, but I'll leave you to put the authors and publications in their place, yeah?

 

Keep up the crusade.

Edited May 27, 2021 by TNT1

[M L]

All I can say is *** styl.

[TheoG]

7 minutes ago, M L said:

All I can say is *** styl.

OK, mar sê asb wie het die k@k styl?

[ChrisF]

1 hour ago, MORNE said:

I thought we were talking about some Spanish guy?  ☺️

ignore me, as you were.

 

Been looking for this video .... a link will be appreciated.

 

 

Okay, sorry for the interruption ..... as you were, handbags at the ready .....

 

[marko35s]

3 hours ago, MintSauce said:

 

 

You hardly ever see a ranger on the mountain, yet there have been two occasions where SANParks have declared that certain trails would be opened to cyclists and have then followed up by posting rangers at those specific points to catch riders. Were the riders I know of who got caught in two such cases on separate trails in the wrong for riding there? Yes, they were. But it speaks volumes of the attitude of SANParks that they would be so petty to go to such lengths to catch (and charge criminally in one case) riders trying to enjoy a trail that's going to be opened anyway in literally a few days.

 

Where and when was this?

The only thing that I know of that comes close to this was when a mtb representative announced The Cork Tree trail (I think) was opening while it was still under discussion between The Table Mountain Mountain Bike Forum and SANParks, but had absolutely not been opened at that point and it would be many months before it was as all the proposed trails had to go through a public participation exercise first.

[MintSauce]

25 minutes ago, marko35s said:

Where and when was this?

The only thing that I know of that comes close to this was when a mtb representative announced The Cork Tree trail (I think) was opening while it was still under discussion between The Table Mountain Mountain Bike Forum and SANParks, but had absolutely not been opened at that point and it would be many months before it was as all the proposed trails had to go through a public participation exercise first.

One incident was Cork Tree. To my knowledge, it happened between SanParks announcing the effective date that it would open and the actual opening date, which were a few weeks apart.

Second incident happened on the Rhodes Mem singletrack, just left of the main entrance, shortly before it officially opened.

[MintSauce]

 

2 hours ago, Jewbacca said:

Which is difficult to do if they constantly have to police a bunch of idiots who know better.

I don't disagree with you.

And just for the record, again, I share no sympathy for riders caught rogue riding and certainly much less so for those treating rangers disrespectfully.