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ADVICE PLEASE : New vs Used MTB - HardTail vs Dual Suspension


DarkWing77

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Good Morning Bikehub Members,

We have been looking to upgrade our 20 year old Nishiki MTB to something more updated ????

I have been advised to go with 29" wheels (although my wife prefers the 27.5"). I'm 1.82m which means I should be sticking to a Large frame (although there don't seem to be as much variety second hand in Large). I was also looking at some Dual Suspension bikes on Facebook Market place but I see numerous comments on "staying away" from used dual suspension. I have included the links to those bikes at the bottom if anyone thinks I should consider them... although in my price range I can only find 26" wheel size.

If anyone could give us some advice on the best way forward I would really appreciate it... I've been trolling Bike shops and online ads for weeks now and want to make a decision already! ???? We aren't hectic riders (yet) and have been doing some moderate trails on the old faithful Nishikis but if the bug bites I'd rather we had decent bikes that can take us far before having to upgrade again)

We are looking at the two TITAN bikes below to buy new... Both have hydraulic disk brakes but also have the bottom of the range Tourney deRailers and Shifters. So for this reason alone I am looking at going second hand instead. Our budget per bike is between R7,500 & R8,500 at a push. 

2021 Titan Rogue Ryde Hardtail Aluminium Mountain Bike https://www.cyclelab.com/product/2021-titan-rogue-ryde-hardtail-aluminium-mountain-bike

& 2021 Titan Racing Calypso Alpine Ladies Mountain Bike https://www.cyclelab.com/product/2021-titan-racing-calypso-alpine-ladies-mountain-bike

 

Used I've found the following that I believe would be suitable (I love the look of the Ghost Tacana but is at upper limit of budget, MEDIUM frame, I know nothing about the brand and has Tourney Front deRailer not sure if this makes ANY difference)

https://bikehub.co.za/classifieds/item/hardtail-mountain-bikes/484701/ghost-29er-tacana-2-brand-new-condition-medium

https://bikehub.co.za/classifieds/item/hardtail-mountain-bikes/485367/cannondial-trial5-m-handlebar-lockout

https://bikehub.co.za/classifieds/item/hardtail-mountain-bikes/484820/titan-trail-sport-29er-m-frame-mint-condition

https://bikehub.co.za/classifieds/item/hardtail-mountain-bikes/485371/merida-big-nine-40d

https://bikehub.co.za/classifieds/item/hardtail-mountain-bikes/484937/merida-bignine-tfs-500

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/4153814148071452/

Dual Suspension Bikes

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/204661098194394/

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/206583471391621/

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/151677350342024/

 

Edited by DarkWing77
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Hi - at this price range you are unlikely to get a decent dual sus bike, even second hand unless you get a 26er in which case you’ll be getting something old which may then cost in maintaining 

You are going to get a million answers here but it it was my hard earned cash I’d get the new Titans you were looking at and have peace of mind and some sort of warranty

have fun

Edited by Wayne pudding Mol
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It is a tough one. It really depends an where and how you are planning to ride. The Tourney groupset is not intended to be used on serious trails I believe. My wife is content with hers but I believe it is fine for casual road use and not much more. 

Buying 2nd hand is risky because you might pay R7k for the bike and then might have to pay R5k for a new groupset 1 month down the line. 

If you intend on riding more serious trails get a bike with an air and not a coil fork. If it has an air fork chances are the brakes and the groupset will be decent. 

I bought a new Silverback similarly specced to the Titans you are looking at and then bought a higher spec 2nd hand bike 3 months later as the Silverback could not handle the trails I was riding. 

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Thank you Roelf… your experience is exactly why I’me looking second hand… I’m from the old school generation with my Nishiki bikes where nothing has broken or been changed over the last 20years (other than a couple of tubes). Have no idea how much wearing parts would cost on these bikes…  

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1 hour ago, Rolf Hansen said:

It is a tough one. It really depends an where and how you are planning to ride. The Tourney groupset is not intended to be used on serious trails I believe. My wife is content with hers but I believe it is fine for casual road use and not much more. 

 

I bought my wife the 2021 Titan Calypso Rogue Ride. The frame is lovely. The fork is ok. I have to agree that the Tourney groupset, in particular the rear derailleur, is not up to scratch. The shifters are nice. The brakes are dull and fade too quickly. Claris would have been a BIG improvement. Its a pity Titan couldn't work that into their entry level lineup. 

You would probably also want to upgrade the saddle as well. 

Also, although they come with Vittoria Barzos, they are not tubeless ready. So you might end up forking out another R1300 on each bike to go tubeless. 

 

Edited by Vaultboy
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I was also faced with the same question from November last year (shortly before my eldest's birthday). Buy a new entry level Mountain Bike bike or a "for its time" decent to good secondhand bike. I have two boys who are quickly growing up and needed better bikes. After visiting a few bike shops, I was shocked to see the prices of the new, even entry level bikes. In my instance, I decided to go the secondhand bike route. I have gone through this exercise 3 times now (because my interest in dual suspension bikes was piqued, I also got one for myself.) I am about to go through the process for a fourth time now.

I am fortunate in that I am technically inclined and have built up an extensive set of tools and machines over the years, that the average guy would not necessarily have which means that I can make or fix parts where required.

If you are looking for dual suspension bikes in your price range you will be limited to bikes with 26 inch wheels. You may come right with a hard tail in 29 inches.

Here are a few things I have learnt when it comes to buying a second-hand mountain bike in general, and specifically when it comes to 26 inch Dual Suspension Mountain Bikes.

1. When you are interested in a bike, make sure of the age. Ask on this forum or Google the different models. There are a few sites out there that provide values of bikes etc. People often get the age of the bike wrong and have an inflated expectation of the value of their bike. This is exacerbated by the fact that the new bikes and components have become extremely expensive (in my modest view). People now regularly feel that they can sell their bike for the same or even more than what they bought it for.

2. Patience is a virtue. There are some really good bargains to be had out there. I managed to get a Medium Giant Anthem X1 on the hub for a friend of mine. He paid R8000, but the bike was pristine and he did not need to spend a single cent on it. I helped him service the bike (including the fork and shock) and everything was perfect. The bike was actually truly only ridden a few times.

3. You have to inspect the bike personally and ask someone who is knowledgeable to come with.

4. Know that you will need to service the bike or have it serviced, even if the seller tells you it was serviced. Not that he/she may be untruthful, but you will need to establish for yourself if there are any issues. This includes a service of the shock and fork. a Suspension service can turn out to be very costly which is the reason why people caution against buying secondhand dual suspension bikes.

5. Assume that, at the very least the cassette, chain, bottom bracket and brake pads will need replacing. This could extend to hubs or shafts etc. Fortunately it is easy to check chain wear with an inexpensive tool/gauge you can get from your LBS. If you factor the replacement cost of those items into the cost of the bike, anything you do not need to replace is a bonus.

6. In all likelihood you will also need to replace the pivot bearings on the bike. Whilst fairly available it can also be an expensive exercise. I have done it on three bikes now and the average price is in the region of about R700. This is for high quality bearings sourced form bearing agents and not the LBS. Expect to pay more from the LBS.

7. Tire replacement can also be very expensive. Especially if you want to go tubeless.

8. The older the bike is the harder it may be to source parts.

9. Because of the price of new spares, the build cost can add up very quickly. Fortunately there are good buys to be had on the hub and you will be surprised how helpful people are on the forum. 

I am not mentioning all of the above to dissuade you, but rather enable you to make a more informed decision.

I guess it ultimately boils down to what you intend doing with the bike. In my instance I wanted to get decent bikes for my boys and a dual suspension for me for fitness and recreation. I am not interested in competing in events, nor do I want to do very technical rides. Thus 26 inch wheels were more that adequate for me and the boys. The other question is if you are one of those guys who are bothered with having the latest.

I have rebuilt three bikes now. Two for well within your budget. The one a Trek Fuel EX6 for my one boy and the other Giant Anthem 2 for myself. Both these bikes are mechanically perfect and a huge pleasure to ride. The third one was a complete restore for my youngest son. It is the bike featured here. Titus RacerX restoration - Post Your Bike & Projects - Bike Hub In this instance the Fox fork on the bike was not economical to repair, but that was obvious on inspection of the bike and I managed to source a suitable fork in an excellent condition on the hub. Another speed bump, that pushed up the price, was that the one rim is damaged beyond repair. Something that was not visible in the initial inspection. I managed to get another set of 26 inch rims in good condition as a replacement. I also opted to completely strip and respray the bike, adding to the cost, which was not strictly necessary if you don't mind a few nicks and scratches. Something that is going to happen much quicker than you hoped in any event if you use the bike regularly. The build came in under R10 000 (only because I did everything myself) but I am certain that there are a few people who would not mind paying R10k for this bike in an "as close to a new condition" as you are likely to find. The other thought, and I realise that in a sense I may be supporting the current high prices being asked for secondhand bikes, is that you simply need to compare what you can buy new for R10k with this bike and I can assure you that you are unlikely to come near the same specs. 

I love tinkering and fixing things and so far I can honestly say that all three projects have been absolutely worth it. Both in terms of a personal sense of achievement and financially.

Perhaps the last point I should make is that it is a good idea to spend one or two thousand rand more on a very clean bike than trying to save it on one that is not so clean.

 

 

 

Edited by Mars1967
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I agree with the comments. Buy new, as light as possible, hard tail. With current stock shortages people are taking chances with second hand, over pricing. Try keep bucks left for decent pedals and saddle.

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I think what Mars1967 touched on is actually quite important: buying 2nd hand is much "safer" if you know what to look for and have the ability to work on your bike yourself. If you have to take your bike to your LBS to have most things done MTBiking can become very expensive but much more so if you buy a 2nd hand bike that needs a little bit of work.

 

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2 hours ago, Mars1967 said:

I was also faced with the same question from November last year (shortly before my eldest's birthday). Buy a new entry level Mountain Bike bike or a "for its time" decent to good secondhand bike. I have two boys who are quickly growing up and needed better bikes. After visiting a few bike shops, I was shocked to see the prices of the new, even entry level bikes. In my instance, I decided to go the secondhand bike route. I have gone through this exercise 3 times now (because my interest in dual suspension bikes was piqued, I also got one for myself.) I am about to go through the process for a fourth time now.

I am fortunate in that I am technically inclined and have built up an extensive set of tools and machines over the years, that the average guy would not necessarily have which means that I can make or fix parts where required.

If you are looking for dual suspension bikes in your price range you will be limited to bikes with 26 inch wheels. You may come right with a hard tail in 29 inches.

Here are a few things I have learnt when it comes to buying a second-hand mountain bike in general, and specifically when it comes to 26 inch Dual Suspension Mountain Bikes.

1. When you are interested in a bike, make sure of the age. Ask on this forum or Google the different models. There are a few sites out there that provide values of bikes etc. People often get the age of the bike wrong and have an inflated expectation of the value of their bike. This is exacerbated by the fact that the new bikes and components have become extremely expensive (in my modest view). People now regularly feel that they can sell their bike for the same or even more than what they bought it for.

2. Patience is a virtue. There are some really good bargains to be had out there. I managed to get a Medium Giant Anthem X1 on the hub for a friend of mine. He paid R8000, but the bike was pristine and he did not need to spend a single cent on it. I helped him service the bike (including the fork and shock) and everything was perfect. The bike was actually truly only ridden a few times.

3. You have to inspect the bike personally and ask someone who is knowledgeable to come with.

4. Know that you will need to service the bike or have it serviced, even if the seller tells you it was serviced. Not that he/she may be untruthful, but you will need to establish for yourself if there are any issues. This includes a service of the shock and fork. a Suspension service can turn out to be very costly which is the reason why people caution against buying secondhand dual suspension bikes.

5. Assume that, at the very least the cassette, chain, bottom bracket and brake pads will need replacing. This could extend to hubs or shafts etc. Fortunately it is easy to check chain wear with an inexpensive tool/gauge you can get from your LBS. If you factor the replacement cost of those items into the cost of the bike, anything you do not need to replace is a bonus.

6. In all likelihood you will also need to replace the pivot bearings on the bike. Whilst fairly available it can also be an expensive exercise. I have done it on three bikes now and the average price is in the region of about R700. This is for high quality bearings sourced form bearing agents and not the LBS. Expect to pay more from the LBS.

7. Tire replacement can also be very expensive. Especially if you want to go tubeless.

8. The older the bike is the harder it may be to source parts.

9. Because of the price of new spares, the build cost can add up very quickly. Fortunately there are good buys to be had on the hub and you will be surprised how helpful people are on the forum. 

I am not mentioning all of the above to dissuade you, but rather enable you to make a more informed decision.

I guess it ultimately boils down to what you intend doing with the bike. In my instance I wanted to get decent bikes for my boys and a dual suspension for me for fitness and recreation. I am not interested in competing in events, nor do I want to do very technical rides. Thus 26 inch wheels were more that adequate for me and the boys. The other question is if you are one of those guys who are bothered with having the latest.

I have rebuilt three bikes now. Two for well within your budget. The one a Trek Fuel EX6 for my one boy and the other Giant Anthem 2 for myself. Both these bikes are mechanically perfect and a huge pleasure to ride. The third one was a complete restore for my youngest son. It is the bike featured here. Titus RacerX restoration - Post Your Bike & Projects - Bike Hub In this instance the Fox fork on the bike was not economical to repair, but that was obvious on inspection of the bike and I managed to source a suitable fork in an excellent condition on the hub. Another speed bump, that pushed up the price, was that the one rim is damaged beyond repair. Something that was not visible in the initial inspection. I managed to get another set of 26 inch rims in good condition as a replacement. I also opted to completely strip and respray the bike, adding to the cost, which was not strictly necessary if you don't mind a few nicks and scratches. Something that is going to happen much quicker than you hoped in any event if you use the bike regularly. The build came in under R10 000 (only because I did everything myself) but I am certain that there are a few people who would not mind paying R10k for this bike in an "as close to a new condition" as you are likely to find. The other thought, and I realise that in a sense I may be supporting the current high prices being asked for secondhand bikes, is that you simply need to compare what you can buy new for R10k with this bike and I can assure you that you are unlikely to come near the same specs. 

I love tinkering and fixing things and so far I can honestly say that all three projects have been absolutely worth it. Both in terms of a personal sense of achievement and financially.

Perhaps the last point I should make is that it is a good idea to spend one or two thousand rand more on a very clean bike than trying to save it on one that is not so clean.

 

 

 

Hi Mars, 

Thank you for your detailed reply... This is so useful and all the info I need... I will need to mull this over and absorb everything... Seems that I may be in for more than I can chew at the moment but may also be a good new way to get into the sport... At the moment I'm using the LBS to do repairs but I see they can get very expensive and would prefer to do as much as possible myself... in time... How times have changed and how the industry has evolved into this complex system... You've given me lots of homework. Thank you!

 

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I must just mention this - a riding buddy bought a entry level Silverback over December and he has been sending the big lines at Hoogekraal Skills Park on that bike, as well as banhoek, plasir flowtrails, jonkershoek Armageddon, Red Phoenix, Contermans Black Rhino (from the mast) and everything in between (edit) including Tokai vasbyt and others. The bike is holding up well. Ja, he's buckled the odd wheel and bent the odd handlebar, but that's more to do with his progression and getting more rowdy than because the bike is not holding up. He is in good company of a couple of trail full-sus bikes, but by no means is he holding the group back. In fact on my last venture down the Hoogekraal Cobra I was towing him in on his maiden run and he was breathing down my neck all the way down.

There is something to be said about not always needing the fanciest and best to still have a good time.

Edited by Robbie Stewart
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14 hours ago, Wayne pudding Mol said:

Hi - at this price range you are unlikely to get a decent dual sus bike, even second hand unless you get a 26er in which case you’ll be getting something old which may then cost in maintaining 

You are going to get a million answers here but it it was my hard earned cash I’d get the new Titans you were looking at and have peace of mind and some sort of warranty

have fun

Nothing I need to add here Wayne has said it all. 

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