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Rant: Bad Deals


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18 hours ago, Nico van Loggerenberg said:

 

I'm talking about stalking the hub, getting a good deal on something, and then having the seller go ahead and sell it off to someone else after everything has been confirmed and agreed. This hasn't just happened to me once or twice, it has happened to me every single time I've tried to buy a mountain bike this past year. 

 

If you had agreed a sale and fulfilled the conditions of establishing a contract (not that difficult)  the seller is in breach of contract if he sells to someone else. It is not his to sell even if you have not paid yet.

Sue him, and force him to deliver the goods. Issue a summons and let him defend his breach in court. Your correspondence should be sufficient evidence of a contract. 

If you only agreed verbally,  you may struggle with evidence even though the contract may be valid. So send a DM or a WhatsApp - which is why a verbal contact is said not to be worth the paper it is written on.  

 

Edited by eddy
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27 minutes ago, Aadil Adam said:

No cycle store, nor dealer, cycle or vehicle will hold a vehicle for anyone, on word only.
Why would one expect a private person who has someone at the door with cash in hand, to turn them away in the hopes of the buyer arriving at a later date, and potentially lose the sale all together?
I've experienced the OP's frustration too, but put it down to -first come, first serve. Someone got there before me, so cheers to them.
One wouldnt pay for an item without viewing, because the sellers word can be trusted. Why is the seller to take the buyers word only, that he will arrive the next day.

Exactly... 

If you want something badly enough pay a deposit and/or sign a contract. 

Anything else is hearsay. And Bikehub cannot sanction anyone on the say so of someone else. 

 

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I have never had any problems buying on the hub. If I am really interested in something I phone the seller , ask relevant questions/ negotiate the price and if happy pay immediately.  On the other hand when selling something I did experience time wasters, 1001 non relevant questions and low ballers. Guys will WhatsApp calling " dips" and 3 weeks later rant about not getting the item. 

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1 hour ago, eddy said:

If you had agreed a sale and fulfilled the conditions of establishing a contract (not that difficult)  the seller is in breach of contract if he sells to someone else. It is not his to sell even if you have not paid yet.

Sue him, and force him to deliver the goods. Issue a summons and let him defend his breach in court. Your correspondence should be sufficient evidence of a contract. 

If you only agreed verbally,  you may struggle with evidence even though the contract may be valid. So send a DM or a WhatsApp - which is why a verbal contact is said not to be worth the paper it is written on.  

 

I'd love to believe that this works, but my experience with lawyers and the law in general suggests that even with a signed contract in place, you're wasting your time. Besides, it's killing a mosquito with a handgun. 

1 hour ago, IceCreamMan said:

Exactly... 

If you want something badly enough pay a deposit and/or sign a contract. 

Anything else is hearsay. And Bikehub cannot sanction anyone on the say so of someone else. 

 

Texts on whatsapp are not hearsay, they are considered documents. 

12 minutes ago, wessie12 said:

I have never had any problems buying on the hub. If I am really interested in something I phone the seller , ask relevant questions/ negotiate the price and if happy pay immediately.  On the other hand when selling something I did experience time wasters, 1001 non relevant questions and low ballers. Guys will WhatsApp calling " dips" and 3 weeks later rant about not getting the item. 

Good for you! Do these recalcitrant buyers have 40 plus 5 star reviews on their profiles?

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1 hour ago, Nico van Loggerenberg said:

Any seller is very free to operate on a first come first serve basis. I have no problem with that. The problem comes when a "dibs" / holding arrangement is made and agreed to, and then he decides to change to first come first served. Capeesh? 

@Nico van Loggerenberg what would you have done in this situation as the Buyer?

Seller Posts ad: Bargain Bike for R10,000
Buyer Responds : I would like to take the bike, can I pick it up this afternoon
Seller: Sure we have a deal
Buyer: Great

1 hour later

Seller: I have someone else interested, they are at my front door with cash... are you still coming this afternoon?
Buyer: Yes I am, Please hold it for me
Seller: I can, but then you need to do an immediate payment for R5000 or cash send. if you are not committed then I am going to sell it to this guy. I can't risk loosing the sale.
Buyer: We had a deal!
Seller: I have a genuine deal standing in front of me, you might not show this afternoon.

Would you pay the deposit or not?

 

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27 minutes ago, ACE Cycles said:

5 pages of comments later and it's pretty obvious to me why Nico hasn't been able to buy a bike yet 😜

There is a common denominator here 

I reckon he has bought 3 bargains already and sold them on for a profit to accumulate some cash for his new build. 

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3 hours ago, porqui said:

 

Really !!!

 

And some years ago it was NOT simply that !!

It was a bit more - quite a bit more - it was a bit like sharing - sort of a win win.

I think I might have joined the hub before you so I am very well aware of that... The main difference is that the community was smaller - this is a business and they want more users so they can grow. This is an obvious outcome of that. The classifieds shouldn't be a source of cheap stuff - to me it has always been a place to offload your un-needed stuff to a willing buyer (the N+2?).

I've also been looking out for months for a deal on an e-bike. I know I'm looking for a bargain - all my self-imposed budget allows - and I also know it will be snatched up the second it comes along and I might miss it (I probably already did and don't even know it!).

The "dealers" have also been around for many years - that isn't new.

Edited by Edge_Design
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42 minutes ago, AdamA said:

@Nico van Loggerenberg what would you have done in this situation as the Buyer?

Seller Posts ad: Bargain Bike for R10,000
Buyer Responds : I would like to take the bike, can I pick it up this afternoon

Seller: Sure we have a deal
Buyer: Great

1 hour later

Seller: I have someone else interested, they are at my front door with cash... are you still coming this afternoon?
Buyer: Yes I am, Please hold it for me
Seller: I can, but then you need to do an immediate payment for R5000 or cash send. if you are not committed then I am going to sell it to this guy. I can't risk loosing the sale.
Buyer: We had a deal!
Seller: I have a genuine deal standing in front of me, you might not show this afternoon.

Would you pay the deposit or not?

 

 

A deal is a deal .... seller did NOT say "first come first served".

 

 

NO, I would not pay a deposit at that later stage.

 

 

For the exact same principle ... if the buyer starts moving the goal posts, then the original deal is off the table.

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In fairness to Nico, I've had the "we had a deal and then you sold it to someone else" story happen to me before, and I guess it does suck if you're emotionally invested in buying something. But it's also par for the course on the current "classifieds-driven-website". My approach is to take all the messages and arrangements with a pinch of salt until someone either sends me their bank details and lets me pay, or until I'm standing in front of the dude with the thing in my hands. 

It saves you a lot of heartache if you don't falsely assume something is yours before you pay for it. 

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11 minutes ago, ChrisF said:

 

A deal is a deal .... seller did NOT say "first come first served".

 

 

NO, I would not pay a deposit at that later stage.

 

 

For the exact same principle ... if the buyer starts moving the goal posts, then the original deal is off the table.

So in your mind, the buyer has to pay you R10 000 no matter what. Even if he looks at the bike and changes his mind, or decides he's not happy or something else comes up on his side, a deal is a deal and he must pay? 

Edited by Mountain Bru
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14 minutes ago, ChrisF said:

 

A deal is a deal .... seller did NOT say "first come first served".

 

 

NO, I would not pay a deposit at that later stage.

 

 

For the exact same principle ... if the buyer starts moving the goal posts, then the original deal is off the table.

@ChrisFWhat happens if I change the scenario a little... 

Seller Posts ad: Bargain Bike for R10,000
Buyer Responds : I would like to take the bike, can I pick it up this afternoon
Seller: Sure we have a deal 
Buyer: Great

1 hour later

Seller: I have someone else interested, they are at my front door with cash... are you still coming this afternoon?
Buyer: Yes I am, Please hold it for me
Seller: I can, but then you need to do an immediate payment for R5000 or cash send. if you are not committed then I am going to sell it to this guy. I can't risk loosing the sale.
Buyer: We had a deal!
Seller: I have a genuine deal standing in front of me, you might not show this afternoon.

 

 

Edited by AdamA
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13 minutes ago, Mountain Bru said:

So in your mind, if the buyer has to pay you R10 000 no matter what. Even if he looks at the bike and changes his mind, and decided he's not happy, a deal is a deal and he must pay. 

 

SELLER -

DONT make a "deal" if you (the seller) see it as nothing more than an "appointment".  Then make it clear, others are coming to view, and first come first served.

 

 

Given the number of no-shows, and "Viewers", it makes perfect sense to go with "first come first served" ....

 

 

BUYER -

Your question DO raise a VERY valid question .... "a deal is a deal" implies negotiations are done ...

 

 

PS - as a BUYER I went to a Hubber's (and he has posted on this thread) house a while back to view a bike.  It was arranged as a VIEWING, neither under any obligation, and I did NOT ask him to keep it for me (though I did check it was still available for driving there).  GOOD communication prevents a lot of these sticky situations 

Edited by ChrisF
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5 minutes ago, AdamA said:

@ChrisFWhat happens if I change the scenario a little... 

Seller Posts ad: Bargain Bike for R10,000
Buyer Responds : I would like to take the bike, can I pick it up this afternoon

Seller: Sure we have a deal 
Buyer: Great

1 hour later

Seller: I have someone else interested, they are at my front door with cash... are you still coming this afternoon?
Buyer: Yes I am, Please hold it for me
Seller: I can, but then you need to do an immediate payment for R5000 or cash send. if you are not committed then I am going to sell it to this guy. I can't risk loosing the sale.
Buyer: We had a deal!
Seller: I have a genuine deal standing in front of me, you might not show this afternoon.

 

 

 

Aaaaa .... now we moving into horrible grey area (as per my post above) ...

 

 

Best to be upfront: You are welcome to come and view the bike.  Please note others have indicated a desire to view the bike.  The sale will be on a first come first served basis.

 

 

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