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Damn, Threads get closed down quickly these days!


Dicky DQ

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9 minutes ago, jcza said:

Welcome back. Is your CAPS LOCK broken? 

Dips recently  got a pair of old man glasses and can not read text when NOT IN CAPS :P

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On 9/19/2021 at 4:40 PM, Nick said:

We've asked for Forum discussions to talk about bikes. There are still some Off Topic discussion for the fluffier, less controversial topics. The threads we've closed have been beaten worse than a dead horse, adding zero value beyond frivolous entertainment for some. That's not an over the top expectation from a cycling Forum.

We don't need any reminding where Bike Hub has come from. Surprise, we were there too. But in the past, we've been slack at moderating. This approach allowed a lot of things that are unacceptable to happen including many things we've been embarrassed to have attached to Bike Hub. It's not the vision we had for the website and we're paying for it by trying to correct that course now. We put a lot of ourselves into maintaining and building it. We want to be able to take pride in the content it hosts.

In the process, we're going break some segments of the community and lose people. We've come to terms with that. If you want to have constructive conversations about cycling, then Bike Hub is the place. There is still lots of value in that. If you want somewhere to fill your day with locker room shenanigans and banter with the lads, it is probably no longer that place. And again, I think that's a reasonable expectation for a cycling Forum. Who knows, it might even make the community more welcoming and inclusive, and more popular than ever as a resource for cyclists. It also might not but at least we tried.

And you are right. If Bike Hub were the forums alone, the servers would have been turned off years ago. The 'evils' of the Classifieds keep the lights on but we do see the value in the Forums beyond just the bottom line. This year alone we dedicated a couple months of development time (this means salaries and neglecting work on profitable projects) to upgrading the platform. It was a massive project and took a huge effort from the team. We did this because we still see the value that the forums add. To then hear that we've turned our back on it is a little grating.

The Classifieds is thriving and we get feedback daily from those using it (spoiler: it's largely positive). We're really happy with it. Maybe there aren't as many bargains anymore but what's happening is not solely symptoms of the changes we've made. Cycling in South Africa has changed immensely since Bike Hub started and we'd like Bike Hub to remain relevant and be a part of it.

I thought you were a Johnny come lately!

Seriously though it's quite amazing that admin has turned a varsity side project into a viable and long term business that has staff, premises, pays tax and all that other legit stuff. I'm sure he's taken a lot of bribes in the form of bike porn in the name of journalism along the way. He will deny this, as he should.

I think I joined during the TCS era, bike hub was a bit wild but still building up to peak crazee. I came from the back ground of the warthogs Mtb mailing list. Turns out a forum had so much more functionality!

Mailing lists are mostly dead. Many forums have been superceded by web 3.0 Facebook and twitgram stuff, but here we still are. It's not by accident that thehubsa is now the biggest cycling resource on the country. I'm shocked to see actual hardcopy cycling magazines still existing in the supermarket queue. Who on earth funds that recycling machine? Remember the news24 comments section, well this here website predates and outlived that monster!

So ja, a cycling forum it is. If the medium term goal is a focus on quality classifieds and blocking controversial NCR discussion I am happy in the knowledge that it is not a decision taken lightly. I also have that yellow thing on the left mainly because I believe there is a place for a local cycling forum cooking and these guys are doing a good job at it so worth supporting.

The only thing that doesn't seem to change here is people thinking they know better than Matt and nick on what is required to make this place work. Bless their optimism.

Finally, I got an email last week from the cyclingtips people. I think I'm on their radar due to being in their simple but effective fantasy games. They have... Shock shock horror... Just launched a forum. They're smart aussies, and clearly wanted to expand their community (which also has a subscription component). I'm automatically a member so had a poke around. Early days but the threads are all totally cycling related and damn interesting.

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8 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

I thought you were a Johnny come lately!

Seriously though it's quite amazing that admin has turned a varsity side project into a viable and long term business that has staff, premises, pays tax and all that other legit stuff. I'm sure he's taken a lot of bribes in the form of bike porn in the name of journalism along the way. He will deny this, as he should.

I think I joined during the TCS era, bike hub was a bit wild but still building up to peak crazee. I came from the back ground of the warthogs Mtb mailing list. Turns out a forum had so much more functionality!

Mailing lists are mostly dead. Many forums have been superceded by web 3.0 Facebook and twitgram stuff, but here we still are. It's not by accident that thehubsa is now the biggest cycling resource on the country. I'm shocked to see actual hardcopy cycling magazines still existing in the supermarket queue. Who on earth funds that recycling machine? Remember the news24 comments section, well this here website predates and outlived that monster!

So ja, a cycling forum it is. If the medium term goal is a focus on quality classifieds and blocking controversial NCR discussion I am happy in the knowledge that it is not a decision taken lightly. I also have that yellow thing on the left mainly because I believe there is a place for a local cycling forum cooking and these guys are doing a good job at it so worth supporting.

The only thing that doesn't seem to change here is people thinking they know better than Matt and nick on what is required to make this place work. Bless their optimism.

Finally, I got an email last week from the cyclingtips people. I think I'm on their radar due to being in their simple but effective fantasy games. They have... Shock shock horror... Just launched a forum. They're smart aussies, and clearly wanted to expand their community (which also has a subscription component). I'm automatically a member so had a poke around. Early days but the threads are all totally cycling related and damn interesting.

Long Live the Warthog's!

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Here's another idea.....

What about giving the seller the option to allow comments on their ad? 

If I post something, I'd always allow comments. It would save me getting 20 DMs because I forgot to list a seat post diameter, or having to reply to 10 messages asking if something is available with "kind of, you're 3rd in line" or whatever. And if I'm selling something, it would actually benefit me as a seller to have guys commenting stuff like "awesome bike, I wish it was a large". I would also always sell something to whoever commented "dibs" first ????.  

@ACE Cycles, apart from what Hairy mentioned, it's also an opportunity for sellers to create some "good vibes" without having to post on the forums. For example, if you post a few ads, and I can see that you respond to comments, and are courteous and helpful etc and that there aren't any "this guy screwed me over" comments, I'd feel more comfortable in trusting you without just relying on your ratings, or your forum post count. For the buyer that isn't engaged on the forums, it can really help to build some confidence in sellers if you see some engagement under the ad. I bought my first bike off the classifieds way back when, and was clueless about bicycle and the forums, but I saw in the comments under an ad that the guy seemed to be a decent human being, and saw from the comments that the bike seemed to be a good deal, and pulled the trigger. 

You might say the rating system should serve this purpose, and I guess it does in part. But technically there should only be reviews for concluded deals, so non-responsive sellers don't get rated, guys that respond to "the year model on your ad is wrong" with abuse don't get rated, guys that beg and harass you for lower prices don't get rated, guys that consistently low ball you don't get rated, etc etc etc.... And also, if I were to open an ad, see that 5 guys have asked questions and the seller hasn't responded in weeks, I'd know to just ignore that ad without becoming the 6th guy to just get ignored. If you look at half of the "I'm upset about the classifieds" threads that people start, lots of those threads wouldn't exist if there were ads on the classifieds (like the "why don't sellers respond to my messages thread", or the "is it still available" thread)

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25 minutes ago, Mountain Bru said:

Here's another idea.....

What about giving the seller the option to allow comments on their ad? 

If I post something, I'd always allow comments. It would save me getting 20 DMs because I forgot to list a seat post diameter, or having to reply to 10 messages asking if something is available with "kind of, you're 3rd in line" or whatever. And if I'm selling something, it would actually benefit me as a seller to have guys commenting stuff like "awesome bike, I wish it was a large". I would also always sell something to whoever commented "dibs" first ????.  

@ACE Cycles, apart from what Hairy mentioned, it's also an opportunity for sellers to create some "good vibes" without having to post on the forums. For example, if you post a few ads, and I can see that you respond to comments, and are courteous and helpful etc and that there aren't any "this guy screwed me over" comments, I'd feel more comfortable in trusting you without just relying on your ratings, or your forum post count. For the buyer that isn't engaged on the forums, it can really help to build some confidence in sellers if you see some engagement under the ad. I bought my first bike off the classifieds way back when, and was clueless about bicycle and the forums, but I saw in the comments under an ad that the guy seemed to be a decent human being, and saw from the comments that the bike seemed to be a good deal, and pulled the trigger. 

You might say the rating system should serve this purpose, and I guess it does in part. But technically there should only be reviews for concluded deals, so non-responsive sellers don't get rated, guys that respond to "the year model on your ad is wrong" with abuse don't get rated, guys that beg and harass you for lower prices don't get rated, guys that consistently low ball you don't get rated, etc etc etc.... And also, if I were to open an ad, see that 5 guys have asked questions and the seller hasn't responded in weeks, I'd know to just ignore that ad without becoming the 6th guy to just get ignored. If you look at half of the "I'm upset about the classifieds" threads that people start, lots of those threads wouldn't exist if there were ads on the classifieds (like the "why don't sellers respond to my messages thread", or the "is it still available" thread)

I hear what you are saying, but my experience with comments on my ads have been painful, mostly. 

 

Comments like, "Is it still available" and "Best Price?" and a ton of comments from the hub Police, most of whom aren't even interested in the item. There were some cool comments, no doubt, but the majority of the comments didn't add any value and just created more admin for me across my ads. 

 

Somehow I still manage to make sales daily, despite my low post count, and my bikehub rating is my pride and joy. My opinion is that if anyone is seriously interested then they will call and comments were mostly used by window shoppers and a couple of wise asses. I definitely don't miss the "I've done my research and you're charging too much" comments

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13 hours ago, ACE Cycles said:

I hear what you are saying, but my experience with comments on my ads have been painful, mostly. 

 

Comments like, "Is it still available" and "Best Price?" and a ton of comments from the hub Police, most of whom aren't even interested in the item. There were some cool comments, no doubt, but the majority of the comments didn't add any value and just created more admin for me across my ads. 

 

Somehow I still manage to make sales daily, despite my low post count, and my bikehub rating is my pride and joy. My opinion is that if anyone is seriously interested then they will call and comments were mostly used by window shoppers and a couple of wise asses. I definitely don't miss the "I've done my research and you're charging too much" comments

And this is the bottom line.

Classifieds cater to sellers- end of story. People posting ads is what keeps things turning and if sellers don't feel comments are in their best interest, then it makes no sense to have them from Admin's point of view. No campaigning will change that.

As @Mountain Brusaid though, I personally would have comments for my ads and I really believe they benefit buyers. I recently bought a bike after taking a break from cycling for a few years, and despite 5 years of industry experience (many years ago), there were questions I should have asked the seller but only thought of after the deal was concluded.

Having access to other insightful "window shoppers" through their comments on the ad would have benefitted me in my decision making.

On the whole, comments favour buyers because they make it far tougher for seller's to deceive, exaggerate, lie or simply reply on a buyer's ignorance.

As is the case with used car dealers, complete honestly is rarely profitable. The best salesmen are masters at making the buyer feel like they got an incredible deal, which is difficult to do when there are comments pointing out that it is not, in fact, an incredible deal.

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30 minutes ago, Trashy said:

And this is the bottom line.

Classifieds cater to sellers- end of story. People posting ads is what keeps things turning and if sellers don't feel comments are in their best interest, then it makes no sense to have them from Admin's point of view. No campaigning will change that.

As @Mountain Brusaid though, I personally would have comments for my ads and I really believe they benefit buyers. I recently bought a bike after taking a break from cycling for a few years, and despite 5 years of industry experience (many years ago), there were questions I should have asked the seller but only thought of after the deal was concluded.

Having access to other insightful "window shoppers" through their comments on the and would have benefitted me in my decision making.

On the whole, comments favour sellers because they make it far tougher for seller's to deceive, exaggerate, lie or simply reply on a buyer's ignorance.

As is the case with used car dealers, complete honestly is rarely profitable. The best salesmen are masters at making the buyer feel like they got an incredible deal, which is difficult to do when there are comments pointing out that it is not, in fact, an incredible deal.

I disagree with you completely, honesty is profitable in the long term. Deceit is a once off, short term gain at the expense of your reputation moving forward. Hence the rating system 

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1 minute ago, ACE Cycles said:

I disagree with you completely, honesty is profitable in the long term. Deceit is a once off, short term gain at the expense of your reputation moving forward. Hence the rating system 

Google Tuan bewshererwhatever

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3 minutes ago, BaGearA said:

Google Tuan bewshererwhatever

I fail to see the relevance as he does not advertise on bikehub.co.za classifieds. 

 

Also, he is prolific on Facebook, where there are comments...

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7 hours ago, ACE Cycles said:

I understand where you are coming from and appreciate it. 

Can this not be resolved by reporting the ad or contacting the seller? 

I would personally like to see someone pointing out these things in an advert comment. If you PM the seller no one else may know to look out for it. It would helps the over keen buyer from falling into a web of deceit? How many times have we read about the "Con" sale where there wasn't full disclosure? 

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31 minutes ago, ACE Cycles said:

I disagree with you completely, honesty is profitable in the long term. Deceit is a once off, short term gain at the expense of your reputation moving forward. Hence the rating system 

From the little I've seen of your interactions on the Hub and from the praise of others here, it does seem like you are the real deal.

I would wager though, that in the large pool of dealers, you are a minority.

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I actually don't mean dealers as stated above, but sellers in general.

Many that sell here aren't dealers and don't care about a long term reputation. As the site aims to direct more people here to sell, the fly by night type will gravitate in greater numbers, bringing their lack of scruples with them.

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8 minutes ago, Trashy said:

I actually don't mean dealers as stated above, but sellers in general.

Many that sell here aren't dealers and don't care about a long term reputation. As the site aims to direct more people here to sell, the fly by night type will gravitate in greater numbers, bringing their lack of scruples with them.

You're right, iv only been looking at it from a dealer's perspective. 

Most long term users value their reputation and new seller's ads should always be handled with extra caution 

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12 hours ago, ACE Cycles said:

I fail to see the relevance as he does not advertise on bikehub.co.za classifieds. 

 

Also, he is prolific on Facebook, where there are comments...

Yes he did advertise on here 

 

Classifieds and forums , the relevance is he and a large amount of sellers are intentionally mixing words t0 pawn 0ff **** thats worn to hell/ doesn't exist in that twatwaffle's case

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14 hours ago, ACE Cycles said:

I disagree with you completely, honesty is profitable in the long term. Deceit is a once off, short term gain at the expense of your reputation moving forward. Hence the rating system 

You Sir, are the real deal. I'll gladly buy stuff from you any day of the week.

I tip my hat to you sir - Feel Like A Sir | Meme Generator


Unfortunately, loads of stuff is sold by guys who are just looking to get rid of their bike/trainer/wheels or whatever, so they create an account just to post an ad, and disappear as soon as it's sold, which isn't evil or wrong. But those are very often the "problem cases". I don't think it's always intentional though. There are definitely some guys that are intentionally deceitful, but I like to think that in the majority of cases, people aren't being deliberately deceptive, they're just uninformed or don't know any better.

For example, I look at a drive train where everything is coated in black sludge from years of lubing without cleaning it, and think it must be toast and that there's a good chance I'll have replace half of it if I buy the bike, but to an unknowing owner, he just thinks to himself that he rode the bike yesterday and it all worked fine, so he writes "great condition" on his ad. A simple comment of "Hey bud, when last did you service the bike or replace the chain?" can help everyone that sees the ad know what they're buying, and can actually help the seller if he actually replaced the chain last week but uploaded old or bad photos. 

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3 minutes ago, Mountain Bru said:

You Sir, are the real deal. I'll gladly buy stuff from you any day of the week.

I tip my hat to you sir - Feel Like A Sir | Meme Generator


Unfortunately, loads of stuff is sold by guys who are just looking to get rid of their bike/trainer/wheels or whatever, so they create an account just to post an ad, and disappear as soon as it's sold, which isn't evil or wrong. But those are very often the "problem cases". I don't think it's always intentional though. There are definitely some guys that are intentionally deceitful, but I like to think that in the majority of cases, people aren't being deliberately deceptive, they're just uninformed or don't know any better.

For example, I look at a drive train where everything is coated in black sludge from years of lubing without cleaning it, and think it must be toast and that there's a good chance I'll have replace half of it if I buy the bike, but to an unknowing owner, he just thinks to himself that he rode the bike yesterday and it all worked fine, so he writes "great condition" on his ad. A simple comment of "Hey bud, when last did you service the bike or replace the chain?" can help everyone that sees the ad know what they're buying, and can actually help the seller if he actually replaced the chain last week but uploaded old or bad photos. 

In a perfect world, comments would be allowed and all comments will be constructive

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