Power tap worth it or not?

[niterider]

FWIW, I've had my PT (with Open Pro rim and DT Revolution spokes) for just over 2 years now. I've broken 2 spokes in that time. I train and race on them.

[GoLefty!!]

Powertap, biggest load of tosh I ever bought.

The tool itself works fine. It's jsut that the data you colect from is it is of no greater value to you unless you have a coach to fine tune your fitness for specific events.

For my type of riding, MTB Marathon training, it offered no value. The HR data I collected concurrently told me the same story. So if the Powertap was confirming what my body and the HRm was tellingme, then why did I need a R10000 toy and a monthly subscription to bikemax to tell me what I coukld deduce for myself from HRM data.

I will not waste my money on this tool again. Nice to have but not a necessity. HRM training works just fine.

Sports Science Institute agrees with that too. theyhave conducted a study into this and found no diffference in performance betwen athletes using a Powermeter and powertraining methods, athletes using a HRM and HRM methods and Athletes using RPE.

 

 

 

 

[bruce]

The training experts and front riders here have given you good adivice as whether you're a suitable candidate or not.

 

There are some practic al considerations that also come to play.

 

PowerTap is arguably the best product one can buy at a reasonable price. Your other option is the Ergomo but it only measures left leg power. The PowerTap measures power that reaches the back wheel and SRM measures power applied to the crank.

 

Whether you want to measure power with or without drive train losses is irrelevant since you're not after abosolute but relative measurements. As long as they're consistent' date=' you're OK.

 

A PowerTap hub needs to be built into a wheel and that requires some special skill. The problem lies in the size of the hub diameter which makes the spokes approach the rim at an obtuse angle - a definite spoke breaker. Some people even want their PowerTaps built into deep section wheels such as Zipps - this is a very bad idea in terms of spoke durability. I think the most practical solution is a box section rim such as Open Pro or DCR ST 17 - this is not shiny enough for all but the most sensible riders.

 

I have built dozens of PowerTap wheels for customers and I can honestly say PowerTap-based wheels are fragile in comparison with standard small diameter hub wheels.

 

Obviously that shouldn't put you off from using PowerTap - if you're the right candidate for one then get one. But remember, there are some maintenance issues around those. Luckily not as bad as those Ksyrium wheels I see all the time.

 

 

 

 

[/quote']

 

Johan, does that fact that the drive torque is on the opposite side to the sprocket have a significant impact when building the wheels?

[Johan Bornman]

FWIW' date=' I've had my PT (with Open Pro rim and DT Revolution spokes) for just over 2 years now. I've broken 2 spokes in that time. I train and race on them.[/quote']

 

You don't make a judgemental statement on that loss of yours. However, that's a very poor record for wheel durability. Then again, two years means nothing. My aunt Suzie has never broken a spoke in her entire 78 years of life.

 

It is distance and load that matters.

 

 

[GoLefty!!]

I also broke 3 spokes in the 1 year I owned my Powertap.

The rim had to be replaced after the last spoke failure so I replaced the rim and spoke and sold the system. It was built with a DT Swiss RR1.1 rim.

 

CINQ looks to be promising.

Shimano's soon tobe revealed Flightdeck Powermeter also should be a good option because they do engineer, not just market.

 

 

[bruce]

Sports Science Institute agrees with that too. theyhave conducted a study into this and found no diffference in performance betwen athletes using a Powermeter and powertraining methods' date=' athletes using a HRM and HRM methods and Athletes using RPE.[/quote']

 

Lefty, can you post the link to that paper again please, I know you did a while ago but I'm struggling to find it.

 

Thanks

[Le Tour]

Each to their own.  I think the biggest advantage is if you are told to do 10 x 2min intervals at 400watts, you have to do them!  For me the best thing about it is the motivation and the ease at which you can see improvement.

 

At the end of the day you get better by riding your bike, but a PT can show you in black and white your improvement over time, which helps with the motivation.

[Johan Bornman]

 

Johan' date=' does that fact that the drive torque is on the opposite side to the sprocket have a significant impact when building the wheels?

[/quote']

 

This does have an effect on how you build but it only restricts you in building with radial on the left hand side. It has nothing to do with spoke durability.

 

The issue is the large hub diameter - 70mm vs a normal 35 or so. The trick to deciding how you'll build a wheel is to take spoke longevity into consideration first and foremost.

 

For the best results, you want the spoke to arrive at the rim at a solid 90 degrees like this:

 

 

 

 This means the spoke is not stressed in the threads. This is a poor example photo since it is an internal nipple rim but all that I have handy right now.

 

Anything over that creates a bend in the spoke at the spot where the spoke enters the nipple. Right inside there is a thread that doesn't like to be bent open - the thread just cuts right through the spoke like a laser.

 

This is an example of a poor design.

 

 

The spoke is past its natural swivel angle in the rim and the angle is than taken up by bending the spoke inside the thread. This spoke will break and break with a clean, laser-like cut at the 1st thread. When it will break depends on your weight and distance covered.

 

I am working with a good customer and pro-cyclists using PowerTaps and I think I've solved the problem for once and all.

 

 

[niterider]

FWIW' date=' I've had my PT (with Open Pro rim and DT Revolution spokes) for just over 2 years now. I've broken 2 spokes in that time. I train and race on them.[/quote']

 

?

 

You don't make a judgemental statement on that loss of yours. However, that's a very poor record for wheel durability. Then again, two years means nothing. My aunt Suzie has never broken a spoke in her entire 78 years of life.

 

?

 

It is distance and load that matters.

 

?

 

?

 

 

 

I'm sorry JB, but where did I make any judgement? I said "FWIW" (for what its worth).

[JasonW]

I agree that care needs to be used when building PT wheels. Having said that I own both the road and MTB (disc) versions and haven't broken any spokes yet. I've also been very impressed with the durability of the MTB PT as it has been fine through one of the muddiest Cape winters I've experienced!

 

Lefty, you are misrepresenting the SSI study that Jeroen did. I also do not believe that a coach is a must-have either. If you are prepared to do a bit of homework and read Hunter Allen's book you can work most of it out by yourself.

 

In my opinion the PT is very useful for marathon MTB events (more so than XC where power output is very predictable ). For example it works as a far better pacing tool than HR.

 

 

[Johan Bornman]

I'm sorry JB' date=' but where did I make any judgement? I said "FWIW" (for what its worth).[/quote']

 

 

Moenie skrik nie! It wasn't a hostile statement.

 

Let me rephrase: I can't figure out whether you think two spokes in that period is good or bad.....but I think it is bad.

 

 

[GoLefty!!]

I agree that care needs to be used when building PT wheels. Having said that I own both the road and MTB (disc) versions and haven't broken any spokes yet. I've also been very impressed with the durability of the MTB PT as it has been fine through one of the muddiest Cape winters I've experienced!

 

Lefty' date=' you are misrepresenting the SSI study that Jeroen did. I also do not believe that a coach is a must-have either. If you are prepared to do a bit of homework and read Hunter Allen's book you can work most of it out by yourself.

 

In my opinion the PT is very useful for marathon MTB events (more so than XC where power output is very predictable ). For example it works as a far better pacing tool than HR.

 

 

[/quote']

 

Misrepresenting the study? I don;t think so. I asked a direct question. "Is there any benefit to traiing with power vs traiing with HR?" the answer was equally direct. "No".

 

A coach is a useful person to have around. A Powertap is not. It's a nice to have.

I have the copy of Hunter Allen's book. Yes it was informative and provides excellent education in training with power.

but if there is o benefit in training with powervs other methods then why incur the expense?

 

SO you made the R25K investment in training with power. Good for you.

I chose not to use Power and do not belive I am worse off for it.

[Christie]

If the question is "power meter vs. new wheelset" I vote for the power meter. If you are not a pro cyclist, it can help you train more efficiently if used right.

 

If you have to get one right now, a powertap offers the best price vs performance. If you can wait a month or six, the Quark power meter looks promising, at around the same price as a powertap wireless, if you have got an Ant compatible cycling computer.   

[#Pete#]

If I spend R12000 will it make me go train? ;-)

 

(Actually, if I throwing money at it will help motivation maybe I need a new bike.....)

[BikeMax]

 

I agree that care needs to be used when building PT wheels. Having said that I own both the road and MTB (disc) versions and haven't broken any spokes yet. I've also been very impressed with the durability of the MTB PT as it has been fine through one of the muddiest Cape winters I've experienced!

 

Lefty' date=' you are misrepresenting the SSI study that Jeroen did. I also do not believe that a coach is a must-have either. If you are prepared to do a bit of homework and read Hunter Allen's book you can work most of it out by yourself.

 

In my opinion the PT is very useful for marathon MTB events (more so than XC where power output is very predictable ). For example it works as a far better pacing tool than HR.

 

 

[/quote']

 

Misrepresenting the study? I don;t think so. I asked a direct question. "Is there any benefit to traiing with power vs traiing with HR?" the answer was equally direct. "No".

 

A coach is a useful person to have around. A Powertap is not. It's a nice to have.

I have the copy of Hunter Allen's book. Yes it was informative and provides excellent education in training with power.

but if there is o benefit in training with powervs other methods then why incur the expense?

 

SO you made the R25K investment in training with power. Good for you.

I chose not to use Power and do not belive I am worse off for it.

 

As usual from you - uninformed opinion parading as fact.

 

[BikeMax]

Thee have been a lot of good points covered here so I don't have much to add;

 

1. There is no doubt that training with power will help you to get the most return from your training time

 

2. Tracking porgress is a huge issue for cyclists - seeing hard evidence that the training you are doing is making you faster (before race day) helps a lot to keep you going when things get tough

 

3. Managing and tracking training load is a huge factor for most working athletes - finding the balance between enough and too much, and avoiding sickness is an area that a power meter can help a lot.

 

In terms of cost and value - a PM is a far better investment IMO than any set of wheels. It will, with a little time and effort, help any rider to ride faster and to understand their performance. A set of wheels will make very little difference to most riders (The PM will also hold it's value more and probably last longer)

 

In terms of ability levels - it is fair to say that most of us want to ride faster, wherever we are finishing, so something that will help us to do that is worthwhile whether 1st or 100th in a race.

 

Let's not lose sight of the fact that it is a measuring device - nothing more. The data it provides however is useful to all cyclists interested in improving their riding.