Wonder Woman Posted March 22, 2007 Share Okay' date=' here is the take that I have: Your Max heart rate is slowly declining as you get older. Your LT is about 80-90% of MaxHR. So there is room for improvement in your LT not your MAx HR. A unfit person will sit at about 75% of Max HR where a Fit person you does tonnes of interval training can acheive over 90%. [/quote'] Makes sense!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BikeMax Posted March 22, 2007 Share Why do you want to know at what HR you elicit a certain level of lactic acid? In all honesty, unless you plan to caary a portable lactate tester with you while training, then the figure is of limited use to you. Why not simply ride an all out 20 min TT (or climb) and take the average HR for this as a "guide" to threshold HR. Better still, add to this TT a hard maximal sprint for the last few minutes and see if you can get a reasonable estimate of max HR. You can then at least use these figures to help you with training zones - which I guess is why you want to test ? Threshold HR as a %age of V02 max can be increased with training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BikeMax Posted March 22, 2007 Share Muscle efficiency is even more important. some atheletics can oxygenate their muscles better than others' date=' and therefore go faster at a lower HR. This is ala LA. So before you try and train your body to operate at the LT, first get it to be efficient. LSD before speed work.[/quote'] The performance improvements attributable to LA's muscle efficiency gains were over a long period of time (7 years) spent training at high intensity - not LSD. For most of us there is little to be gained through this, in comparison with training the CV system to provide oxygenated blood to the working muscles at a better rate. The best way to train the CV system is to train at a moderate or higher intensity - not long slow distance which gives very little in terms of fitness benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce Posted March 22, 2007 Share Muscle efficiency is even more important. some atheletics can oxygenate their muscles better than others' date=' and therefore go faster at a lower HR. This is ala LA. So before you try and train your body to operate at the LT, first get it to be efficient. LSD before speed work.[/quote'] Kona, at which intensity do you believe the muscles achieve the most improvements in terms of efficiency? Okay, please ignore - Bikemax beat me to it!bruce2007-03-22 10:06:55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcgee Posted March 22, 2007 Share And then there were power meters... now you can link your threshold to power... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BikeMax Posted March 22, 2007 Share And then there were power meters... now you can link your threshold to power... Now you are talking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michelle Posted March 22, 2007 Share I did a lactate test on the weekend & did the 20min TT a few months ago... my tested LT heartrate was quite a bit lower than what I got from the TT, so my opinion is, if you want to be sure, get a proper test. If you're in the pretoria area check out www.mytrainer.co.za for contact details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craven Posted March 22, 2007 Share After a TT your body is full of lactate which means that you were producing more than you could get rid of ie. you were over your LT. All of these tests are very good and help you planning things, but you also have to know what to do with the results, doesnt help getting them and then not knowing what to do with them. Mcgee and Bikemax: Power... Oooooo!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BikeMax Posted March 22, 2007 Share I did a lactate test on the weekend & did the 20min TT a few months ago... my tested LT heartrate was quite a bit lower than what I got from the TT' date=' so my opinion is, if you want to be sure, get a proper test. If you're in the pretoria area check out www.mytrainer.co.za for contact details.[/quote'] Lactate threshold is ussually lower than threshold power - depending upon what "lactate threshold" definition is used. My point was that if you are going to use the data for training zones on the road then a road based threshold test is a far more useful tool than a lab based test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanieFiets Posted March 22, 2007 Share For a cyclist, knowing lactate threshold heart rate is as important as knowing frame size. Heart rate training zones are best if based on LTHR, since the percentage of maximum at which one becomes anaerobic (lactate accumulates) is highly variable. For example, one cyclist may have LTHR that is 85% of his maximum heart rate, while another goes anaerobic at 90% of max. If both riders train at 90% of max, one is deeply anaerobic and the other is at threshold. They are not experiencing the same workout or getting the same benefits. If, however, both train at 100% of LT or any other percentage of LT, the experience the exact same exertion level and reap the same benefits. Dis 'n uittreksel uit 'The Cyclist's Training Bible' - Joe Friel. Ek het my by Universiteit Stellenbosch se sportburo laat toets. Hulle sit 'n masker op jou gesig en verhoog elke paar minute die intensiteit van die oefenfiets. Dan prik hulle jou vinger elke paar minute om die lactate te meet. Hulle het my VO2max, bodyfat%, max power, lactate power en lactate threshold gegee. Dink hulle het R 300-00 gecharge. FanieFiets2007-03-22 12:53:18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanieFiets Posted March 22, 2007 Share Mcgee and Bikemax: Power... Oooooo!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BikeMax Posted March 22, 2007 Share For a cyclist' date=' knowing lactate threshold heart rate is as important as knowing frame size. Heart rate training zones are best if based on LTHR, since the percentage of maximum at which one becomes anaerobic (lactate accumulates) is highly variable. For example, one cyclist may have LTHR that is 85% of his maximum heart rate, while another goes anaerobic at 90% of max. If both riders train at 90% of max, one is deeply anaerobic and the other is at thrieshold. They are not experiencing the same workout or getting the same benefits. If, however, both train at 100% of LT or any other percentage of LT, the experience the exact same exertion level and reap the same benefits. Dis 'n uittreksel uit 'The Cyclist's Training Bible' - Joe Friel. Ek het my by Universiteit Stellenbosch se sportburo laat toets. Hulle sit 'n masker op jou gesig en verhoog elke paar minute die intensiteit van die oefenfiets. Dan prik hulle jou vinger elke paar minute om die lactate te meet. Hulle het my VO2max, bodyfat%, max power, lactate power en lactate threshold gegee. Dink hulle het R 300-00 gecharge. [/quote'] Hi Fanie Joe Friel is a little bit out of date now - the test I have suggested will offer the same benefits but is more relevant to real world riding. How often do you see HR zones expressed as a %age of lactate threshold? If you knew your lactate threshold then how would you use it effectively to calculate training zones ? I agree that riders may vary in how aerobic hey are at certain %ages of max HR (this is just one of the problems with HR based training) but with some sensible use of perceived exertion and common sense, this is not an issue. For example, if I ask you to ride for 20 mins at 90% MHR and this takes you "deeply anaerobic" then do you think that you would finish the interval ? (and if you couldn't, then what would this tell you ?) Lactate threshold is usually identified as being an intensity that will elicit lactate levels of 4mmol/l and is ussually lower than a riders "functional" threshold power as established via a decent length TT - so a functional test to establish functional power may be of more use unless you intend to carry around a portable lactate tester. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BikeMax Posted March 22, 2007 Share Mcgee and Bikemax: Power... Oooooo!!!! And your point is ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanieFiets Posted March 22, 2007 Share Hi FanieJoe Friel is a little bit out of date now - the test I have suggested will offer the same benefits but is more relevant to real world riding.How often do you see HR zones expressed as a %age of lactate threshold?If you knew your lactate threshold then how would you use it effectively to calculate training zones ?I agree that riders may vary in how aerobic hey are at certain %ages of max HR (this is just one of the problems with HR based training) but with some sensible use of perceived exertion and common sense' date=' this is not an issue. For example, if I ask you to ride for 20 mins at 90% MHR and this takes you "deeply anaerobic" then do you think that you would finish the interval ? (and if you couldn't, then what would this tell you ?)Lactate threshold is usually identified as being an intensity that will elicit lactate levels of 4mmol/l and is ussually lower than a riders "functional" threshold power as established via a decent length TT - so a functional test to establish functional power may be of more use unless you intend to carry around a portable lactate tester.[/quote'] My boek is 2003 version so ek hoop nie hy is te outdated nie . Ou Joe word steeds internasionaal as 'n ongelooflik coach gesien al werk hy ook nou amper net met power. Maaaaaaaaaar dis juis hoekom ek sy boek gebruik, omdat sy oefeninge LTHR as 'n verwysing gebruik.Al probleem wat ek met die perceived exertion het is dat somtyds het motivation, of 'n tekort daaraan, 'n groot invloed en jy kan dalk voel jy trap baie hard terwyl jy eintlik nie doen nie en vice versa. Ek is seker dat 'n powertap baie meer effektief as die HR is, maar om LT te gebruik is volgens my beskeie opinie die effektiefste manier om 'n HR monitor te gebruik. Die functional HR soos jy se en my LT soos deur die lab gemeet is basies identies.My 2 c. (wou dit nog altyd se!)FanieFiets2007-03-22 13:58:29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BikeMax Posted March 22, 2007 Share Hi Fanie Joe Friel is a little bit out of date now - the test I have suggested will offer the same benefits but is more relevant to real world riding. How often do you see HR zones expressed as a %age of lactate threshold? If you knew your lactate threshold then how would you use it effectively to calculate training zones ? I agree that riders may vary in how aerobic hey are at certain %ages of max HR (this is just one of the problems with HR based training) but with some sensible use of perceived exertion and common sense' date=' this is not an issue. For example, if I ask you to ride for 20 mins at 90% MHR and this takes you "deeply anaerobic" then do you think that you would finish the interval ? (and if you couldn't, then what would this tell you ?) Lactate threshold is usually identified as being an intensity that will elicit lactate levels of 4mmol/l and is ussually lower than a riders "functional" threshold power as established via a decent length TT - so a functional test to establish functional power may be of more use unless you intend to carry around a portable lactate tester.[/quote'] My boek is 2003 version so ek hoop nie hy is te outdated nie . Ou Joe word steeds internasionaal as 'n ongelooflik coach gesien al werk hy ook nou amper net met power. Maaaaaaaaaar dis juis hoekom ek sy boek gebruik, omdat sy oefeninge LTHR as 'n verwysing gebruik.Al probleem wat ek met die perceived exertion het is dat somtyds het motivation, of 'n tekort daaraan, 'n groot invloed en jy kan dalk voel jy trap baie hard terwyl jy eintlik nie doen nie en vice versa. Ek is seker dat 'n powertap baie meer effektief as die HR is, maar om LT te gebruik is volgens my beskeie opinie die effektiefste manier om 'n HR monitor te gebruik. Die functional HR soos jy se en my LT soos deur die lab gemeet is basies identies.My 2 c. (wou dit nog altyd se!) I do not speak Afrikaans (as you might have gathered if you followed any of my posts) - if you would like me to reply then please post in English. I doubt you are particularly interested however - you seem to have your own views on coaching/training pretty strongly fixed in place, and seem to be pretty confident that what you say is the right way to do things. I'll leave you and Friel to it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanieFiets Posted March 22, 2007 Share Skuus, wil nie op tone trap nie. Seker as mens die geld het en jou fietsry so ernstig wil opneem is 'n powertap en 'n coach die manier om te gaan. Maar hierdie is die beste vir outjie soos ek. PS mens se nie iemand is outdated of verkeerd omdat sy views bietjie van joune verskil nie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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