amdretard Posted August 14, 2007 Share On a lighter note ! Thanks for all the power users for helping me remember the Conservation of mechanical energy in my mock exams I was sitting there wondering what the law was that related to power and thought of this thread and i just smiled ! Thanks guys ! Atleast some good come out of this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanieFiets Posted August 14, 2007 Share FYI: I have 40+ rider who results were:Indoor with Tacx Exel 01/12/2006 no Q Rings: 20km time trial Time 29m58 HR avg 146.3' date=' Power average 264w 11/02/2007 with Q Rings: 20km time trial 24min43 HR Avg 125.2, power Avg 450w[/quote'] Well, he clearly wasn't going hard enough on the second TT funny!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted August 14, 2007 Share av HR 146.3 is a High L2 ride for me, TT HR for me would be well into the 170bpm. I don't understand how you can even call that a TT?? 125HR is easy L1.. OK OK, maybe the guy is a pro and produc emore power at a lower HR?Marius2007-08-14 09:40:33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivanb Posted August 14, 2007 Share Bikemax that is the data I received,. Whether it is right or wrong needs to be confirmed by tacx. I received the information and therefore as far a I know it is correct. What I said is that not all reading are the same, not all measuring tools are perfect note I use 'measuring' and some estimate, but if you continuosly use the same equipment for data then you have a guide to judge your benefits, improvements or deterioration. How can I in any way quantify someone elses product, results as good or bad as I have never tested them. These were sent by a rider to me and he could have sent it to anyone, I have a copy of the graph. This was amazing to see, and teh results were as we said even though consideriably higher. I always have said reduced heart rate increased power less lactate, and this is what he got. I coudlhave just as well just said higher power lower heart rate and I bet everyone would have asked how much!! So if you want accuracy justification speak to the rider and or Tacx. I put Tacx name there because everyone would have asked what was used. If you want to confirm, call them and I think CoolHeat are the agents. Let me know if you want their number. I can scan and email the supporting documents by means of the printoute that wants it. The riders name I can ask him if I can mention it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BikeMax Posted August 14, 2007 Share Bikemax that is the data I received' date='. Whether it is right or wrong needs to be confirmed by tacx. I received the information and therefore as far a I know it is correct. What I said is that not all reading are the same, not all measuring tools are perfect note I use 'measuring' and some estimate, but if you continuosly use the same equipment for data then you have a guide to judge your benefits, improvements or deterioration. How can I in any way quantify someone elses product, results as good or bad as I have never tested them. [/quote'] It is up to you, as the person putting the data into the public domain in support of your product, to validate the data. Tacx have never stated that their device gives an accurate power reading. If you want to publish power data to support Q rings then it is very simple - use an accurate and validated device under controlled circumstances. Bottom line - if you cannot be 100% comfortable that the data is good - then DON'T publish it. These were sent by a rider to me and he could have sent it to anyone' date=' I have a copy of the graph. This was amazing to see, and teh results were as we said even though consideriably higher. I always have said reduced heart rate increased power less lactate, and this is what he got. I coudlhave just as well just said higher power lower heart rate and I bet everyone would have asked how much!! So if you want accuracy justification speak to the rider and or Tacx. I put Tacx name there because everyone would have asked what was used. If you want to confirm, call them and I think CoolHeat are the agents. Let me know if you want their number. I can scan and email the supporting documents by means of the printoute that wants it. The riders name I can ask him if I can mention it?[/quote'] Don't waste your time Ivan - I can tell you right now that there is not a rider in this country of that age putting out 450w over 25 mins - period. Just to put it into perspective - Cancellara was estimated to have put out 543w in this years T de F prologue for only 10 mins - so your man is only 90w less for another 15 mins...I look forward to seeing him on a few podiums. I can also tell you that attributing a 70% increase in 20km power in 2.5 months to the use of Q rings is blatantly misleading and you should not be doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivanb Posted August 14, 2007 Share That could be true as you say but as I said that what he gave me computed and done by the system. if its incorrect them my apologies for the system doing so. I have not said q rings will give anyone a 70% increase ever. He is not my man. We only quote a 4% increase in power and 9% reduction in lactate. (excluding decimal points) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoLefty!! Posted August 14, 2007 Share Bikemax that is the data I received' date='. Whether it is right or wrong needs to be confirmed by tacx. I received the information and therefore as far a I know it is correct. What I said is that not all reading are the same, not all measuring tools are perfect note I use 'measuring' and some estimate, but if you continuosly use the same equipment for data then you have a guide to judge your benefits, improvements or deterioration. How can I in any way quantify someone elses product, results as good or bad as I have never tested them.[/quote']It is up to you, as the person putting the data into the public domain in support of your product, to validate the data. Tacx have never stated that their device gives an accurate power reading. If you want to publish power data to support Q rings then it is very simple - use an accurate and validated device under controlled circumstances. Bottom line - if you cannot be 100% comfortable that the data is good - then DON'T publish it. These were sent by a rider to me and he could have sent it to anyone' date=' I have a copy of the graph. This was amazing to see, and teh results were as we said even though consideriably higher. I always have said reduced heart rate increased power less lactate, and this is what he got. I coudlhave just as well just said higher power lower heart rate and I bet everyone would have asked how much!! So if you want accuracy justification speak to the rider and or Tacx. I put Tacx name there because everyone would have asked what was used. If you want to confirm, call them and I think CoolHeat are the agents. Let me know if you want their number. I can scan and email the supporting documents by means of the printoute that wants it. The riders name I can ask him if I can mention it?[/quote']Don't waste your time Ivan - I can tell you right now that there is not a rider in this country of that age putting out 450w over 25 mins - period. Just to put it into perspective - Cancellara was estimated to have put out 543w in this years T de F prologue for only 10 mins - so your man is only 90w less for another 15 mins...I look forward to seeing him on a few podiums.I can also tell you that attributing a 70% increase in 20km power in 2.5 months to the use of Q rings is blatantly misleading and you should not be doing it. hmm pot calling kettle black ....?After all are you, Bikemax, Not advocating the power training methods as punted by Dr Alex Lim which is in turn based on one non peer reviewed paper on power training.. fact of the matter is, your preaching is just as much marketing as the next person's and byyour own words, you are no scientist, just an enthusiast. So please stop promoting yourself as a scientist. Thats false advertising.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christie Posted August 14, 2007 Share hmm pot calling kettle black ....?After all are you' date=' Bikemax, Not advocating the power training methods as punted by Dr Alex Lim which is in turn based on one non peer reviewed paper on power training.. fact of the matter is, your preaching is just as much marketing as the next person's and byyour own words, you are no scientist, just an enthusiast. So please stop promoting yourself as a scientist. Thats false advertising..[/quote'] What has power coaching that got to do with the effectiveness of Qrings? Christie2007-08-14 10:56:30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce Posted August 14, 2007 Share hmm pot calling kettle black ....?After all are you' date=' Bikemax, Not advocating the power training methods as punted by Dr Alex Lim which is in turn based on one non peer reviewed paper on power training..[/quote'] Bikemaxpower coaching is actually based on Coggan & Allen, not on Allen Lim (not Alex by the way) I can assure you, Coggan's work is based on more than one peer reviewed published research paper. The work on performance management and training stress is based on 34 English published papers in research journals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windbreaker Posted August 14, 2007 Share IvanB, I was seriously considering getting myself a set of Q-Rings Not because they will give me extra power. I know enough about the laws of physics to understand that is just not possible. But because I believe that there are some factors that are not completely/adequately addressed by looking at power in isolation (I have no studies to refer to - it's just the way I reason it all down) and that there may be an element of savings in the transfer of the power to the drive-train. My gut feel that any savings would be so low that they would not show above "noise". But I was tempted. After having read your last few postings (and GoLefty's crap too) I have changed my mind and no Q-Rings will come near a bicycle of mine. If you can make such blatantly false claims then simply try to deny responsibility for it then I can't trust a word of what you say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanieFiets Posted August 14, 2007 Share oh, tjorts, hierdie thread het suid gegaan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willehond Posted August 14, 2007 Share Guys, I agree with Fanie, it's getting hot in here! Anyway you guys make lots of sense, but none of you know as much as that uber cool powermeter guy who was on Supercycling tonight! He knows everything! I think you need to give him a call. Peter something...Uhmm.....Peter Wright I think. He is brilliant and agrees with EVERYTHING Bikemax says! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivanb Posted August 19, 2007 Share 2 great threads Yeehaaa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windbreaker Posted August 19, 2007 Share Shamelessly hijacking the forum for your own personal financial gain. This is bullsh*t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivanb Posted August 19, 2007 Share Hye hey thats not nice. I would never do that and you know it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivanb Posted August 19, 2007 Share I pay for adverts here and can respond to forums about my products and everyone knows it is mine so I hide nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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