Wheelsets Road - Sub R 2000

[Java001]

My WH-R500 rear wheel spokes are touching the 105 - 9 speed derailer cage when pedalling hard in 1 st, so it is time for serious weight loss (100kg), spoke retensioning or a set of new wheels. Maybe the wheels should be retensioned and used as training wheels ? 

 

Trawling CRC & CWC the following budget wheelsets appear at approximate prices indicated:  

 

Shimano WHR 500 Wheelset R 850 CRC / R 950 CWC<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Mavic Aksium Wheelset R 1 750  CWC

Shimano RS10 Wheelset R 1 300 CRC

Shimano RS20 Wheelset R 1 600 CRC

Planet X Model B Wheelset R 1999

Fulcrum Racing 7 Wheelset (Red)  R 1 999 CWC

 

I need Shimano 9 speed compatibility - also would bladed spokes be "stronger" than the normal J Bend or straight laced spokes or is this a myth ? 

 

Suggestions and comments appreciated.

[Java001]

BUMP

[Eugene]

I doubt the age of the wheels or your weight have anything to do with the spokes touching the de railure. Are you sure that the hanger is not bent.

Unless there is something wrong with your wheels, I wouldn't buy any of the above as they are not really much of an upgrade, they are all pretty entry level.

If there really is something wrong or if you really want new wheels for the sake of it (we all buy stuff for the sake of it so don't worry), I would go for the RS20 wheelset, however there could be a problem with warranty issues. Immagine posting wheels to the UK to have them repaired.

Rather buy something from CWC of Planet X. The Planet X are pretty light for their cost.

[Java001]

Thanks Eugene - hanger is OK, but also having the frame checked out. Have taken in the wheels for a trueing - 3 loose spokes + 2 too tight.

I want to set up my current WH-R500's with an U14 cassette as back up set for my son, who is riding a lot, so will need to buy myself a new set; I am not too worried about it having to be an upgrade, so am quite happy to buy a new set @ R 950 from CWC, if that is regarded as a best buy under R 2 000  ............... I am simply not at this stage financially able or prepared to spend more than R 2 K on wheels. 

[Eldron]

Thanks Eugene - hanger is OK' date=' but also having the frame checked out. Have taken in the wheels for a trueing - 3 loose spokes + 2 too tight.

I want to set up my current WH-R500's with an U14 cassette as back up set for my son, who is riding a lot, so will need to buy myself a new set; I am not too worried about it having to be an upgrade, so am quite happy to buy a new set @ R 950 from CWC, if that is regarded as a best buy under R 2 000  ............... I am simply not at this stage financially able or prepared to spend more than R 2 K on wheels. 

[/quote']

 

I'm fairly sure you are not too heavy or the wheels are too weak.

 

Have you set the limit screw on the rear derailleur? Looking from the behind the bike it will be the lower screw at the back of the derailleur.

 

Turn it in a 1/2 turn clockwise then ride the bike and see if it still goes into first gear. Repeat the process until it doesn't go into first then turn it 1/2 anti clockwise (or a bit moreif it still doesn't go into first).

 

Normally if a wheel is too flexible you hear it rubbing on the brake blocks not the derailleur on the spokes...

 

 

 

 

[Eldron]

A warning as well!

Do not turn the limit screw too far anticlockwise or it will drop the chain between your cassette and your spokes. The result is very expensive.

 

The limit screw determines how far towards the spokes the derailleur will go - you have to find the "sweet spot" between the chain not going in to first gear and being dropped into the spokes.

 

If you have a bike stand set the limit screw and test rather than riding it.

[Java001]

Thanks for the advice - r/d is set so that chain is 100% on the "sweet spot"in first gear i.e. the limit screw cannot be adjusted any further away from or closer to the spokes - the r/d cage however does not clear the spokes by much with no load, so I assumed that when applying my weight that I somehow closed this gap even more.

You raise a valid point with brake block rubbing, which have not occurred, but then I never ride with very small pad to rim clearances ...........   

[AndreZA]

The R500 are the first set of wheels that Shimano released and were crappy. I spoke to a guy from Shimano SA re the bad quality of their wheels and he said the first series even up to DA were very weak and had a limit of 85kg.

 

 

 

If I'm you I would look past the boutique wheels and have a set built with good serviceable hubs and readably available spokes.

[Java001]

I have a good wheelbuilder locally with a lot of rim and hub spares ( new and 2ndhand) - any recommendations as to a starting point for good quality hub and rim combo's ?    

[AndreZA]

Match the hubs to your groupset. Then get DRC ST17 or ST24 or Mavic Open Pros. With Sapim or DT swiss double butted spokes. That should outlast your bike.

[greatwhite]

Contrary to what Mampara says the WH-R500 were not the 1st wheels (or part of the 1st range of wheels) that shimano released, however he is right that the early wheels (with spokes in the side) were pretty lame - laterally they were seriously 'whippy'  and would touch breakpads easily - a disaster for larger riders. However, even they didn't have a problem with derailleurs touching spokes when set up right.

 

I agree with Eldron and Eugene, your problem relates to either bent derailleur or derailleur hanger (which is more common than most think and not that easily seen), or you don't have the low limit screw set up right.

 

1. Put the bike into the 2nd largest sprocket, then rest a straight edge approximately vertically on the inside edge of the 1st sprocket (ie. between spokes and sprocket and aligned with the derailleur wheels) - its not definitive, but it will give you a good idea if the RD or RD hanger is bent.

 

failing this:

 

2. follow Eldrons instruction - the sweet spot for an RD is just far enough extended to get in to 1st, no more - not "cannot be adjusted any further away from or closer to the spokes"

 

3. Another thought - Just on the off chance that you are, don't cross chain - ie. ride big chain ring and big sprocket together - this is bad for your bike in so many ways and should be avoided.

 

 

Addressing your question about bladed spokes being stronger - simple answer: no - they are bladed to be more aerodynamic

 

Spokes very rarely fail on the bladed section anyway. Most of the time they fail at the J-Bend and less frequently on the threaded section at the nipple.

 

You're a big guy and these are low spoke count wheels without spoke nipple eyelets: I would hazard a guess and say that your rims are starting to manifest the inevitable fatigue failure at the nipples that these wheels nearly always eventually succumb to. Take a close look around each nipple hole in the rim - If you see little crack radiating out from the hole, this will be part of the cause of the loose spokes & also end of life for rims and probably bin time

 

Mampara is right about looking past 'boutique wheels' - go for a 32 or 36 spoke arrangment, make sure the rims have double eyelets (an eyelet connected to inner and outer section of rim) and used double butted spokes. Don't get talked into straight gauge spokes - while they make the wheel a little stiffer, you loose a lot of fatigue resistance (in rim and spoke) and they weigh more. They don't look pretty, but they work and last 'forever' - If you do go the ready built wheel route - stay away from the really low spoke count wheels (RS10 and RS20)

 

<End Thesis>

[Java001]

 

Thanks for all help - derailleur & derailleur hanger checked out OK and as indicated the low limit screw was set up right. Greatwhite, "cannot be adjusted any further away from or closer to the spokes" was my clumsy way of indicating that it was spot on and that no further adjustment was necessary or possible.  Also checked the rims out for fatigue failure at the nipples, but no sign of that yet ( the rim indicators seem to show that these wheels are still fairly new) - it is indeed possible that when I first detected it, I might in a moment of careless shifting have been cross chain. 

 

It turned out to be a combination of rim trueing and resetting of bent drop-outs in a custom made jig, that sorted out my problem and I now have the required clearance between derailleur and spokes. Am told that alloy Raleigh's are prone to bent drop out's irrespective of rider weight ?  

 

With the problem now solved, I still need to shop for wheels as the WH-R500's will be used elsewhere - with DRC ST17, DRC ST24 or Mavic Open Pros as rim suggestions + Sapim or DT swiss double butted spokes on 105 hubs, what am I looking at as estimated cost ? Could I do it on a R 2 000 - R 2 500 budget or will budget constraints force me to look at Mavic Aksium's, Fulcrum Racing 7 or Planet X B type alloy ?   

[Minion]

 

 

 

I had a set of 32H Mavic Open Pros built with Sapim Laser spokes for around R2600 excl. hubs. You could probably save around R500 if you go for the cheaper Sapim Race spokes and DRC rims.

 

The wheels are extremely strong and durable and come with a lifetime guarantee against spoke breakage. I built them with a Record front hub and Powertap rear hub. As a comparison, if I'd built them with a Record rear hub there would have had a similar weight and hub components to Campag Eurus or Fulcrum Racing 3s.

 

Edit: I reckon that, with a little stretching of your budget to R3000, you could build a set of wheels that are significantly better than equivalently priced factory wheels.

 

Edman2010-05-02 13:56:55