Caerus Posted October 2, 2010 Share The playing field is not level. Our riders are at a disadvantage, they will struggle to beat Euro pro's unless they are on a structured blood doping program, or a way is found to stop blood doping.There are some other problems as well - the races in Europe all have 180km - 200km longest distance, even the local town fun rides. The routes also include more challenging climbs. Need more races like the Jock! Im sure we could dope our steaks as well, maybe they could be those 28 day steaks they are advertising for Woolworths that come from Namibia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Luke. Posted October 2, 2010 Share The playing field is not level. Our riders are at a disadvantage, they will struggle to beat Euro pro's unless they are on a structured blood doping program, or a way is found to stop blood doping.There are some other problems as well - the races in Europe all have 180km - 200km longest distance, even the local town fun rides. The routes also include more challenging climbs. Need more races like the Jock! You're right, there's a reason our talented roadies move over to focus on MTB events or go overseas. Our flat 85km road races are a cakewalk compared to the standard in Europe. At the same time though, I don't get why riders who are prepared to pay their way to Worlds are not supported by CSA. That is a poor show on their part. Riders who have the balls to compete at that level should be encouraged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTB_Roadie Posted October 2, 2010 Share the funny thing.....all these bodies and stuff spend so much money on other sports....YET they come home with NO medals!! Where if you look at our cyclist, they actually perform, take Burry Stander, Greg Minnaar...Just think how well we can actually do if they gave the people the opportunity to compete overseas....Where they spend a few 100mil on a Soccer World cup where we dropped out in the first few rounds... I really thought they culd atleast send some people cause we pay our licence fee's but they woul rather buy themself a nice BMW, Mercedes or whatever than taking the cyclist into account.... This CSA thing is anyway a bunch of poo.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weight Weenie Posted October 2, 2010 Share Cheer up guys, one of our girls atleast got tenth place in the ladies race ! (Swart is the surname) Oh and the mtb WC is back in PMB next year and I saw on twitter we won the bid to host he 2011 mtb world champs (marathon I guess, if this is true ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groot Lem 2 Posted October 2, 2010 Share I'm the guilty party. Next year we're be even strickter with only European results counting. And elite worlds wil only be atended by pro tour and pro conti riders. Elite women euro based riders only. If an u23 cannot get a top 20 in a Nations cup they won't go to worlds. JVREnsburg wasn't our best rider at u23 Nations cups this year, it was 2 19 year olds that should qualify next year. They are also based fulltime in Europe as they know its the only way to get up to international standards. Promising locals shouldn't waste their time here, they HAVE to get to Europe and race their fultime. This year only one junior, our best, qualified by getting nations cup points, and he couldn't finish the race. We won't send kids because their daddies can aford it. Last year our best junior girl, won 4 SA champ jerseys in 2 years on the road, couldn't finish half the race. So do we send riders to compete or be competitive?And CSA paid for everything, we've spent more than R1milion on our top riders this year to try and help them qualify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groot Lem 2 Posted October 2, 2010 Share What does that actually mean? it means that its beter to take them to race in Europe for 3 months to learn, improve than a one day race where they'l get dropped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caerus Posted October 2, 2010 Share I'm the guilty party. Next year we're be even strickter with only European results counting. And elite worlds wil only be atended by pro tour and pro conti riders. Elite women euro based riders only. If an u23 cannot get a top 20 in a Nations cup they won't go to worlds. JVREnsburg wasn't our best rider at u23 Nations cups this year, it was 2 19 year olds that should qualify next year. They are also based fulltime in Europe as they know its the only way to get up to international standards. Promising locals shouldn't waste their time here, they HAVE to get to Europe and race their fultime. This year only one junior, our best, qualified by getting nations cup points, and he couldn't finish the race. We won't send kids because their daddies can aford it. Last year our best junior girl, won 4 SA champ jerseys in 2 years on the road, couldn't finish half the race. So do we send riders to compete or be competitive?And CSA paid for everything, we've spent more than R1milion on our top riders this year to try and help them qualify. So who pays for any promising locals to go race & train in Europe full time, these locals need the International exposure. So if as you say these local riders cant finish a race overseas, is that there fault or down to poor management? I would say poor management - its like any sport , why should cycling be different Why is there not enough proper training locally for these riders to be up to the standard of the rest of the International riders. Are riders from all over the world all also havin to send kids/promosing riders to Europe? Surely CSA should have known already that these riders wouldnt have been good enough before they went to the races If the training/management was good enough surely this could have been avoided? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JA-Q001 Posted October 2, 2010 Share While sending all those that can afford it to go to europe, the young guys that have no money, still stay and race our local stront races. So 10 guys get developed and the rest of SA cyclists still suck. Why not try improving our national standard here, where everybody can benifit. We had uci races, it dissapeared. Why not help the small teams, to develop good riders by cutting team costs at races and increasing distances? I meen, for 1 low budget team to get to a race is already over R1000 just on entries and if they need accomodation, thats another R2000 at least. My point is help everyone at home and lift our local standard, then more cyclists will rise to european standards, because the gap is smaller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groot Lem 2 Posted October 2, 2010 Share Jip, anyone that counts is based in Europe. Its not just about training. Barry Austin uses the 10m runing to ilustrate. In RSA we have 8 riders in an 8 lane track, no corners, nothing technical. In Europe we get 8 in one lane, cobble stones, rain. For example today they had a 75km/h downhill with 2times 90 degree corners followed imediateley by a 15 percent climb. The only way is to race there. A month ago most of our girls couldn't even corner in a big bunch, because its not just about numbers and tests. So this year CSA helped about 25 riders to go and race in Europe. its a very expensive exercise and we're trying to create beter local events that simulates Europe. WE're also promoting our riders to top overseas teams, Carla got signed by HTC, Ashley is going for her 2nd season at Lotto, a local elite signing for a Euro pro conto team. Jennings, van Zyl still based in Euro next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Badenhorst Posted October 2, 2010 Share Shew, lots of criticism, unfortunately not much of it constructive. Having been involved in competitive cycling in SA since 1981, I can confirm that the current CSA Road Commission has done more to improve the standard of road cycling in SA in the past couple of years than what was ever achieved before. Sure, they'll make the occasional error, but they are proactive and passionate and knowledgeable and that is something that's difficult to create. They have the following in their favour:* A goal* A plan* A great pool of talent and the following challenges:* Limited funding* Limited support from SASCOC (which still struggles to understand that road cycling is a team sport)* Geographical distance from Europe* A lack of international-standard local racesAll of these challenges are currently being addressed to varying degrees, so perhaps a little patience (and support) is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyclingfiend Posted October 2, 2010 Share I'm the guilty party. Next year we're be even strickter with only European results counting. And elite worlds wil only be atended by pro tour and pro conti riders. Elite women euro based riders only. If an u23 cannot get a top 20 in a Nations cup they won't go to worlds. JVREnsburg wasn't our best rider at u23 Nations cups this year, it was 2 19 year olds that should qualify next year. They are also based fulltime in Europe as they know its the only way to get up to international standards. Promising locals shouldn't waste their time here, they HAVE to get to Europe and race their fultime. This year only one junior, our best, qualified by getting nations cup points, and he couldn't finish the race. We won't send kids because their daddies can aford it. Last year our best junior girl, won 4 SA champ jerseys in 2 years on the road, couldn't finish half the race. So do we send riders to compete or be competitive?And CSA paid for everything, we've spent more than R1milion on our top riders this year to try and help them qualify.I think that is a load of bull and is an blaming CSA cash flow problems on the cyclists. Going back 8 or 9 years, SACF regularly sent U23's and Elites to World champs largely based on their local performances and at least 2 U23 worlds medals come to mind won by South Africans. How the current selection criteria evolved is just "strange". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caerus Posted October 2, 2010 Share Jip, anyone that counts is based in Europe. Its not just about training. Barry Austin uses the 10m runing to ilustrate. In RSA we have 8 riders in an 8 lane track, no corners, nothing technical. In Europe we get 8 in one lane, cobble stones, rain. For example today they had a 75km/h downhill with 2times 90 degree corners followed imediateley by a 15 percent climb. The only way is to race there. A month ago most of our girls couldn't even corner in a big bunch, because its not just about numbers and tests. So this year CSA helped about 25 riders to go and race in Europe. its a very expensive exercise and we're trying to create beter local events that simulates Europe. WE're also promoting our riders to top overseas teams, Carla got signed by HTC, Ashley is going for her 2nd season at Lotto, a local elite signing for a Euro pro conto team. Jennings, van Zyl still based in Euro next year. So youre telling me that no where in South Africa are there places that have very similar roads/terrain/ etc that they have in Europe. Surley it can be developed here better with the right managers & training? Im ignorant to the world of road racing, so im just wanting to be educated here. Its just seems like a lot of excuses to me, please dont think Im having a go at you directly. It just makes no sense to me Surely it makes sense to have them ready enough to compete overseas before sending them. Its like sending lambs to the slaughter, Again I would have to blame local management & training methods. Im sure by now it could have been sorted out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caerus Posted October 2, 2010 Share Shew, lots of criticism, unfortunately not much of it constructive. Having been involved in competitive cycling in SA since 1981, I can confirm that the current CSA Road Commission has done more to improve the standard of road cycling in SA in the past couple of years than what was ever achieved before. Sure, they'll make the occasional error, but they are proactive and passionate and knowledgeable and that is something that's difficult to create. They have the following in their favour:* A goal* A plan* A great pool of talent and the following challenges:* Limited funding* Limited support from SASCOC (which still struggles to understand that road cycling is a team sport)* Geographical distance from Europe* A lack of international-standard local racesAll of these challenges are currently being addressed to varying degrees, so perhaps a little patience (and support) is needed. So in 29 years they still cant get it right? What is the goal & plan? To have them ready in 20 years time:unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groot Lem 2 Posted October 2, 2010 Share I agree, we need to do so much locally with our events, wil help to better identify talent and prepare. The Tour of SA is a good start, and other events we are planning. By the way, as road director I've never attended worlds, neither has my wife. Only Greg Till attended the UCI congress. We have a problem that local event organisers are interested in the masses only, and design their events like that. We also create heroes out of Argus type events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groot Lem 2 Posted October 2, 2010 Share Wont take 20 years, I have a day job and cant do this till I retire. a Few Years ago we had one rider in the top echelon, next year we will have 6 in pro tour or pro continental, racing worlds type distances every week. 2 Years ago we had no international women, next year our top 2 will race for UCI women teams based in Europe. Ashley Moolman is as strong as Carla, a year ago her bike handling was dodgy, this year, after 6 months in Europe, got top 20 in Women Giro d Italia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Badenhorst Posted October 2, 2010 Share So in 29 years they still cant get it right? What is the goal & plan? To have them ready in 20 years time:unsure: While I can see you have a genuine desire to see improvement (as I'm sure we all do), you're obviously quite new to this sport, which means you won't know what the administration of cycling has been through over the past couple of decades. It's a long involved story which I don't have the time to tell. But what I can tell you is that the progress made in road cycling recently in terms of elite racing success is on a sharp upward curve, which is fantastic! There's a way to go still, but the process has been put in place and is beginning to reap rewards. Carla Swart finished 10th at Elite Road World's today. Never, has a South African finished in the top 10 at Elite Road World's. There's a 2020 strategy in place, which got quite a bit of media coverage a couple of months back. The details are here: http://www.cyclingsa.com/Article.aspx?uid=68 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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