Hey, wow, now things are really cooking! Guys, debates like these are healthy, and should be recognized as such, and encouraged. The intention of hashing issues like these out to make everyone who participates think; think about what they say, think about how they behave, and think about what they believe. The intention is not to try and change someone?s beliefs, because (believe me) that?s just not going to happen. No atheist is going to find religion, no matter how many times the scriptures are quoted, and no one is going to abandon their (faith-based) religion, no matter how many times atheists demand objective proof. <?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> So, when posting in a forum like this, everyone should know that their statements are going to be scrutinized, and there is little to no point in answering by quoting scripture, or by demanding proof. If your only contribution is demand proof or to hide behind faith or scripture, then rather refrain from participating, because things will probably degenerate in name-calling, which while initially quite fascinating to watch from the sidelines, quickly turns stale and boring, and really doesn?t achieve much (except perhaps to ruin what where once perfectly good friendships). For those who choose to stay (remember, no one is forcing anyone to stay if they find what?s being said to be offensive) remember ? this is a debate. What?s being bounced back and forward has to be logical and objective ? if your only response is scripture or demands for proof (even though I obviously lean to this side), then you are not debating ? you?re merely making statements, over and over again. [Climbs off soapbox] Now, getting back to where it all started (or at least where I joined in) ? I merely commented that I did not like the idea of not being in control of my own destiny, and expressed distaste for the idea that one?s life is all pre-planned out for you. I maintain this position; if the outcome is already decided, why bother going through the motions? There is no point is stating that ?everyone has a choice?, because in the case of a pre-ordained destiny, that?s just not true. If God (or any other deity) is all-knowing, then he/she/it will already know what choices you will make, so again, what?s the point? Why give someone a choice, when you already know (and have planned) the outcome? If an all powerful, all-knowing God exists (which is what I?m given to understand) then what I don?t understand is why? Like I said, it?s like watching a movie that you know the outcome to. In the movie, characters are continually faced with choices and consequences, but once you know how the movie ends, replaying that movie and getting all excited about what the characters are going to do, and what happens to them is pointless. God supposedly not only already knows the outcome of the movie, he planned and directed it. So I?ll ask again, why sit back and let it run again? And from a personal point of view, I also maintain that if your destiny is already decided, then there is nothing you can do to change it. In fact, EVERYTHING you do, you do because its been planned. If a rapist rapes a 2 year old, is that planned? Surely God would not plan such a thing? And if he didn?t, how could he (being all knowing) not have know that this is what was going to happen? I?m sorry, but it does not make sense (and making sense is the very idea of a debate) to state that God has planned everything in advance, yet you have a choice, and your choice will determine your destiny (but that at the same time, your destiny is predetermined). Please don?t answer this with quotes from the scriptures ? I?m not interested in what someone else wrote in a book, I?m interested in what YOU think ?
