NeutralThinking

wrong button oops

thanks. I already know this.

ag jy is tog so oulik man Ek dink nie julle verstaan so lekker hoe gatvol n mens moet wees om eintlik op n forum te register en n debat te begin oor iets wat ek voel nie genoeg na gekyk word nie. Ja ek is nie van amerika af nie Nee ek is nie Andre Gouws se vriend nie Ja ek het hom wel in persoon geken n paar jaar terug tot hy een aand dronk was en sy meisie rond geruk het en ek hom toe weg gejaag het van haar af. Hy was toe nie my vriend nie en sal nooit wees nie. Maar ek ken wel iemand wat sy vriend was. En die hartseer deel is hy en ander vriende en selfs ek op n tyd het baie hard probeer om hom te kry om op te hou drink soos hy doen. Sy ouer agtergrond is maar moeilik en deurmekaar. Maar hy maak sy eie keuses en deur dit het ek alle respek jare terug al vir hom verloor. ek glo sterk dat iemand wat nie wil hoor nie moet voel en hoe harder hy nou voel hoe beter. Dit maak my kwaad dat mense so vinnig net vergeet het van die storie. Hoe meer mense aangaan daaroor hoe meer sal dit opgetel word en hoe meer sal mense begin kyk daarna en oplet daarna. Ek moet wel se. Wet moet makliker verstaanbaar word vir mense. Baie mense weet nie dat moord tot die gewys kan word nie. As hulle doen sal dit minder dalk gebeur. maar ek glo nie dit sal genoeg wees nie want baie mense is "confident" dat hulle dronk kan bestuur en dit goed kan doen. We have to break that confidence somehow. Thats the only way Ek sal maar omverskoning vra. Ek hou maar net van debat en die storie met die dom donder wat iemand se lewe gan staan en vat het en n familie se lewe dubbel en dwars deurmekaar gaan maak het is skokkend. Die seer wat hy veroorsaak het want DRINK IS LEKKER EN EK SAL NOOIT GEVANG WORD NIE. wel Andre gouws. jy is gevang. En ek hoop en bid jy skrik wakker en kom tot jou sinne en dat jy ongewillig nou n voorbeeld sal wees vir ander.Anyway. Anyway. Yes you were right i was trolling. Not to take attention off the topic or to take away any of its meaning but to make people a bit more focussed on it again. Nothing the government is doing seems to work. So all one can do is resort to unorthodox tactics to make the public angry. and if the public is angry then change will come. MAW as jy een of ander ou in sy kar sien klim en jy kan sien hy is dronk. vat sy sleutels en moer hom.. dink hulle moet n immunity law of iets deursit vir dit. Ek weet nie. Eks net moedeloos met die land en hoe dinge gaan. is al vir hoe lank so So ja. as iemand nie wil hoor nie moet hulle voel. en nee. 7 december is minder as 3 weke van nou af. nie lank nie. Cheers guys. Sorry for pissing some of you off.. I honestly just couldnt believe that this topic was so easily forgotten

You lost 50 it seems

I'm actually just keeping you guys going till the 7th of december when hes going to court again. hopefully and then hopefully gets the maximum penalty So everyone relax I just hope they find a better solution and deterrent to this problem

Narrow minded. lol im sorry but this forum is a joke. You bunch of "holier than thou" people need to wake up. A cyclist gets killed and you guys all just throw your toys out the cott AND THEN YOU WANT TO SIT BACK AND WATCH WHAT HAPPENS.. FFS WAKE UP and fabes. You are a hypocrite. Narrow minded is exactly what you are and you decide to call me that? Funny You are that type of GRAB YOUR TORCHES AND PITCH FORKES persona. Rally the troops we going to BITCH AND MOAN AND THATS ALL WE GOING TO DO. Stand up and freaking do something instead of just being the one guy who is at the front when people bitch and moan and at the back when something needs to be done. you one of those arent you? No real substance or any real positive criticism or ideas to add but you want to bash everyone else. Anyway. Most of You cyclist people are like BMW people. Annoying as F. .U. .C. .K

I was in america for years. I have read up on south african law and its very similar. American law is just so much easier to understand.

A cyclist was killed by a drunk driver. Most cyclists like on this forum just get angry and show their anger. My agenda is the topic of the thread. A solution to problem.. instead of not helping the topic at all in any way. Its like the slogan (if thats what its called) drinking and driving kills (something like that) Doesnt help. More and more people do it. More and more people drive without a license. If you make an accident and kill someone and you have no license its murder too i think. Doesnt stop people... So my agenda. Get people to actually think of what they are saying. Think of the actual law revolving around the issue and then maybe discuss an actual solution that will work. Cos nothing seems to work and all the law and crap just confuses the topic

a few times

My agenda. Ive pointed it out a few times. I said I had issues with people saying he should be killed and sodomized and i have an issue with the murder charge. Even if it was someone else I would have had the same argument. Murder is the unlawful killing, with malice aforethought, of another human, and generally this state of mind distinguishes murder from other forms of unlawful homicide (such as manslaughter) He did not have malice aforethought. He screwed up by making a dumbass choice and should be met with the same charge. Sure. If there are less people like him on the streets then by all means. But Malice aforethought. Some people actually have that towards him. Thats an issue i pointed out. They post their anger on the thread and it doesnt really help the issue which is" THE SOLUTION TO (DRUNK) motorists killing other road users? Opinions/Suggestions:" And understandable because he did kill someone. trust me I know the feeling. I live in the same country as you. The tone of my original post wasnt seen. You feel that i am here to tell you you are wrong. What I am saying is that the murder charge is wrong. Ffs charge him with something that makes sense from a legal point of view and make that LAW KNOWN. Put that law on billboards and make people see it. Call the law the "kill the drunk driving idiot law" . Dont care what you call it. Just make law easier to understand and make it focus on the real big issue. Drunken driving. the death of the victim was a result of that. It was not the primary crime or problem or issue. You find the solution to a problem by looking at the cause. Not the effects I see crap like this on a daily basis

Yes. manslaughter with recklessness (dolus eventualis) Now take the average person who does not know law. You tell him if you make an accident and kill someone while drunk ITS MURDER and it doesnt make sense to that person. What im suggesting is that the law be made a little more clearer. Saying murder just doesnt seem to fit. And I have actually spoken to people and they see him as a murderer. They completely forget that he was drunk. So the real issue of drunken driving is forgotten and now murder is the issue. I have actually had conversations with people who think like this. Thats my issue Im not arguing that the law behind the name murder is wrong. Im saying make people understand it better instead of confusing it

Ill ask you what you asked me. Cant you read? You getting angry. yay.. Good for you My point of view was from a legal standpoint. You then want to throw an emotional view onto that which causes the entire topic to go out the window. I did not come here to tell anyone they are wrong. I wanted people to be a bit more open minded. A lot of people seem to go into tunnel vision mode and just say stone the f%$ker. Does not help the issue and doesn't even help the topic set by this thread. but well done to South African people for always missing the bigger picture. WELL ******* DONE I'm not going to bother talking to you anymore. Your lack of insight and overly defensive manner causes you to not see what im trying to say. I understand what you are trying to point out but that has NO bearing on the point I was trying to make.

hes not my friend.. as stated. The martyr statement wasn't neccesarily pointed at him but to the topic in general. The punishment and law needs to be more clear on drunk driving etc. right now its a bit confusing and unclear. Make it less confusing and clearer and people will have a better understanding and more reason not to go and get pissed and climb in their car

I gave reasons for all my suggestions as to why they wont work or wont happen. I wasn't being serious with those. The point i was making was to try and get people to discuss a solution to a problem instead of just going on about how badly this guy should get thrown in jail or executed or sodomized. It just feels like when something like this occurs people want to moan and go on about how angry they are and not really give the topic some thought on how to make it not happen again. As for the law passed. The word murder just feels wrong to me. You can copy and paste murder and call it Criminal manslaughter or whatever. Would make more sense. But using the murder charge is confusing. Im not saying he should not go to jail. by all means make him. Im just saying that when reading the articles and murder gets mentioned it causes confusion and hate in a sense thats not right. Its like everyone now says he is a murderer. The real issue was he broke the law and someone died cos of it. People dont see it like that. They see murderer and that causes a problem because it sometimes takes the focus of the real issue. Drunken driving

No. I can read quite well thank you. Problem with your logic is that I am looking at this from a legal point of view where you now want to bring in the emotional distress caused to the family... The reason I ask what you are trying to suggest is because where are you going to end with this? Whats fair on the family. Nothing of this is. Whats fair as a judgement on Andre Gouws for his actions. Who knows. But according to law and how law describes murder I find it to be weird that people can slap the murder charge on him. Yes I understand the concept. Make the consequences so high that no one will ever drink and drive again. Thats the ultimate goal. But will it happen? Doubt it Your way of thinking is from an emotional point of view of the family. I get that and its understandable seeing that you have a family of your own. I myself feel that If Gouws had to stand infront of me I would beat the crap out of him. What annoys me is the justice system. Laws are written and so easily changed. If you look at the law concerning murder Andre falls into the Manslaughter category. Not murder itself. Now they charge him with murder. Charging him with fleeing the scene of the crime is fair yes. Cos he did. Charging him with DUI. Fair cos he was. But murder seems out of place. Maybe a law should be brought forward that states that if you break the law and anyone comes to harm based on that action or is killed you will then be charged with lets say 25 years etc. I dont know. maybe there is a law similar to that but right now all thats happening is people are throwing charges at him thats not fair. I dont mean fair on him but fair on how law was written. It does not solve the problem it just complicates it. Something needs to be set in place to prevent people from doing this. I get why people are so angry because people want something to be done. they want to feel safe and they want to be able to not worry about losing a loved one or even their own life when going out cycling or jogging or driving or whatever. Cycling in itself is a hobby and sport for a lot of people. Form of exercise and way to relieve stress.. Now with the added stress that you might get killed by someone driving a car under the influence. what you dont get is that I understand the situation and I understand why people are angry. But theres a right way and a wrong way to do something and all of this seems and feels wrong to some extent.

What exactly are you trying to suggest? That because of the pain caused to the family Andre should meet maximum penalty or even a death sentence if that was still done?

But then the law has to change to fit in. Making a martyr out of one guy when so many others have done the same as him

fear of the consequences....

lol ok. you obviously didnt get what my point was there. I gave options to solve a problem. I personally do not believe that cyclists have to be restricted to parks. This entire thread lacks rational thinking... And i guess i should start thinking rationally and stop replying to people with tunnel vision

Ok. You get manslaughter and you get murder Murder in its core from a legal perspective means it was pre-meditated. You made the choice to go kill someone and did in other words manslaugter is without that pre-meditation.. So because some guy drank too much and drove he made the choice to kill someone? so its pre-meditated?

A friend of mine phoned me a night or two after that happened and My initial response was. Hopefully Andre learns his damn lesson now. This is exactly what im talking about. You have been in accidents, Your emotional state affects your way of thinking when reading my post. You have a biased opinion out of personal experience. I did not defend Andre although it might seem that way. The topic was blown out of proportion and still is just based on your response. Well done. Its like Zuma and his million of wives. Everyone reacts with " WTF REALLY?" but nobody actually wants to do anything about it. Same with this thread. What answers or suggestion do you have to actually solve the problem of Drunk driving ? Isnt that what the this threads topic is?

Yeah and we have pink flying pigs all over the place... Get real...

yeah. In other words the government in this country isn't the issue but the way the majority of people think? Anyway as to the relevance of the government. Its because of the government that laws aren't inforced properly and things like this happen so easily..

God your logic is amazing Go read up the meaning of MURDER... Actually wait dont bother. Go ride your bike. Be happy and just forget i said anything. No point in trying to make you understand the context of that post

My interest here is that as with most issues in south africa the same thing always happens. People enrage and blow something out of proportion. All kinds of hate speech happens. If you look at this threads Title and then read this thread you hardly see any constructive criticism towards the topic that was pointed out in that Title. A solution to a problem So far most of this thread has nothing to add that helps to solve a problem. Instead everyone just want to give their opinion of "OMG HE KILLED SOMEONE, HES SCUM< BLAH BLAH. HE SHOULD DIE" ... (example) ... no one wants to help solve the problem but everyone wants to give their 2 cents and go on about what a monster this guy is.