VT-2

I have done a bit of window shopping or more accurately online browsing myself. Anything trail bike and in L seem to be a problem overall from most brands. Like I said earlier - the seed is definitely planted and I am getting convinced to upgrade - but man the market and industry is not in a good place nevermind the economy. So there are a lot of things that might still justify an upgrade on my current bike even if it is just to see if things get better in the next year or two...

Haha - probably true...but there is the small problem of budget and money available. A new bike will probably have to wait until the end of November when I receive my extra check. Which gives me enough time to shop around for upgrades / demo new bikes and make a final decision. I am definitely getting convinced a 29er and even just the newer geometry is worth the upgrade - but I am still a bit unsure about travel and if it should be a 40k or 65k bike. With the 40k stuff buying you the frame but basically everything else almost a downgrade / sidegrade from what I have now (although a lot of bikes seem to come with dropper now and mine is an old giant from that period). Whilst the 65k bikes at least have or are close to the specs tested in shootouts and have stuff that is at the same level or better than my current bike. I mean I want at least Deore and not be stuck with another below average fork.

Another great reply - thank you! TheBob also recommended I check out the Trek's at Wolwespruit. I also thought clicking on the website that Top sound exactly like the new down-country craze and more towards the XC side on things. But, the reviews I glanced at (will go read in more detail) basically confirm what you said - very capable going down despite the short travel. It would be nice if the shop there had a Top and the more mid travel Fuel. I get the impression from the Facebook / website that is is mostly demo Tops. But, I will go check with them one day in the week after work... The riding I like is the sort of flowing stuff you find at Wolwespruit and trails that have berms, jumps, drops and other obstacles that is challenging but not straight down, table-top, gap clearing hospital stuff. I basically want to be able to just do that as confident as possible and push / progress to doing them proper justice. So, maybe I don't need an Trance X of Specialised SJ Evo...I have not heard from these guys yet? Do they pedal like say my bike / 2015 trail bikes but with all the benefits of what you get with a longer travel trail bike in 2022?

Cool - the boost forks are mostly all the new ones right? I don't know if a new fork is really worth it unless you can get it for under 10k...What is "boost" wheels? Those that allow bigger tyres? I talked to the mechanic at the LBS where I dropped the bike to fix two tyres about a potential upgrade of the rims enabling me to run fatter tyres - not sure what else that involves. (He suggested it could along with 1x12 be good upgrades).

I think something along these lines must be the next step. I will go try the Treks at Wolwe...Only way you will know for sure, but I have a feeling the immediate impressions might also override some logic.

Thanks this is really valuable and exactly what I was hoping to get. Like someone suggested maybe I should just go demo a Trek at Wolwespuit or these modern trail bikes. But good to see that upgrades also really made a difference. I am around 1.8 so not in the 1.87 camp where a 29er might be a more natural fit. I did Jonkershoek about two years ago again on the Trance and again like you said it was more than capable enough. I also just don't like the idea of a 29er and is very tempted to just not get it because they seem to be such a blunt way to compensate for skill and technical terrain - but then again I want to be more confident and like any sport why buckle at progression filtering down and making things easier... So judging by your feedback even although the 27.5 was nimble and gave lekker feedback on the trail - the 29er was just as fun and have made you more confident going down technical stuff? I can upgrade the Trance with say a Pike (5K or so for old one) and let say wheels and maybe drive train for let's say 15k. Or sell the bike - for what 10-15k? Then buy a 45k bike (SJ Alloy or Giant Trance) which will give me the better geometry and modern designs but as far as I can tell even worse compromise parts then the sort of stuff you used to get (the value for money proposition seemed to have really dropped in this regard from 7 years ago). But...all said probably a better ride? Or go up one level and get the Trance X and SJ Evo Alloy stuff at around 65K? The carbon stuff just seem like dirt bike prices (btw all three my dirt bikes where cheaper and that includes two KTMs and a Husqvarna) and for 100k you can get an e-bike.

Cool, thanks for the in depth feedback. I will go double check the setup on the current bike. Pretty sure it might be a 10 spd Deore 11-46 anyway - all I know when I did it was that the bike shop convinced me to change from the old setup and that is was possible without having to replace everything. I actually started out back in the day with a Giant VT-2 all-mountain bike when most people where still on hardtails and full-suspension just becoming more common. Didn't know any better and did marathon and half-marathon races with the bike and got some pretty damn good results considering. Then the pros were all still on hardtails and just starting to switch to full-suspension. When some friends started mountain biking it got more competitive and I wanted something more suitable for the race scene and got the Anthem X1 (all XT parts). It felt awesome and really worked for racing (always seeded group A-C at worse) but never felt very confident going downhill. Got the Trance X 2 in 2015 and have never really worried about race performance (then raced less because friends moved / stopped mtb and was happy to just do it for fun). I actually also got it because then the whole enduro thing was becoming bigger and I wanted in after doing a Hakahana event on the Anthem and realising this is not the way to go...I have never been back to Enduro racing despite getting the Anthem since it never really seemed to fit Gauteng... So, whilst I think it is fair to say I have never felt the Trance was too little bike for my bravery / riding style / technique and it was a massive improvement going downhill and I am very happy with its all round-performance - it always felt that it could be a bit more secure / stable going downhill. The fork despite not bottoming out never felt like it was really meant for this bike... I guess what I am trying to say is I am not going to do enduro racing or approach say Wolwespruit like an Enduro rider - but I want to be able to have a rig / improvement that makes me fairly confident at the sort of aggressive trail riding end of the spectrum. I mean I did all the black at Wolwespuit from the start (not that it is super technical and the current supertube runs can be done rolling to Greg Minaar balls to the wall style) on the Trance. Not sure if it means an upgrade, new bike or just some jump / drop-off / technical riding practice and classes...

A couple of people have suggested a fork upgrade. The fork never got good reviews back in the day and was first on most lists for upgrading. What do I need to know when upgrading and what is typically available in RSA? I assume 2nd hand makes most sense? Back in the day many on the interwebs preferred a RS Pike Solo 150mm if I recall... (I assume it has to be a 27.5 fork around 140mm to 160mm and probably a 34-36 - again the 32 was a criticism on the bike - and the offset doesn't matter that much but ideal if can match?)

Yeah, first things I got back in 2015 was a dropper and flat pedals. Really enjoy both especially the flat pedals. Changed the drive train pre-Covid to what the shifters and most of the exsisting components could accomodate (apart from new casette and blade upfront) but definitely 1 x 12 is first on the list for next upgrade.

Eish, good advice but hard to follow the last part Although I did not look for 7 years...

I hear you and is more or less on the same page. But, I want to hear from those that did change to the slacker, new geo and longer travel newer trail bikes if that made any difference to their riding at say a Wolwespruit. (I have done all the black lines with my bike and don't just slowly roll every jump although I by no means is Greg Minaaring down them either or have any great desire at 40+ years)

Haha - deserve it! I think I only got the header right and from there on it was "trials" all the way. Even riding "trials" in Pta Will edit it tomorrow...

I realised my Giant Trance 2 27.5 (2015) is about seven years old. I have not really looked seriously at new bikes mostly because I ride on my own the trails around Pretoria (love Wolwespruit in particular) and don't do events. If there is one thing that have kept me from the temptation is has been the prices - but that is another story. This is however the longest I have gone without a new bike. Whilst there is nothing in particular wrong with the Trance, I am looking again at the bike market. Apart from the absolute shock in terms of price and value for money (the components are average on 60k+ bikes) - I have also noticed there seem to be less choice with almost none of the brands you see in shootouts available in South Africa. Especially if you like trail bikes...But that is a whole discussion on its own... I want to rather focus on what the new trail bikes can do compared to a 2015 Trance. Mine is still standard apart from the drive train which I changed two years ago to a single 10 speed. First, it seems most of the traill bikes are now 29ers. Second that you still basically get an average trail bike (130-140mm) and a more aggressive trail bike (close to enduro / all mountain 150mm-160mm machines) - but now also the so-called "down-country" bikes. I am only interested in the trail to more aggressive trail bikes. I see you also get "chips" and all sorts of settings that enable you to change the geometry on the trails. Anything I missed? I want to know from trial riders or people that had a trail bike from say 2015-2018 and then replaced / added a more recent bike (2019-2022) like say a Giant Trance X or the Specialised SJ Evo (aggressive trail bikes). However, I would also like to hear from the people that stayed more or less in the 130-140mm range from 2019-2022 - it might be the equivalent of my bike then. (1) How much have the bikes improved in technology and does it make a difference to you riding ability and technical progression compared to you older bike? (2) Is it more fun? One criticism of all these new 29er trail bikes and especially the long travel bikes is that they are so forgiving and capable that they actually require bigger and more dangerous riding to stay fun. In other words the actual trial experience is soaked up in all the travel and tech. Also that people don't learn proper skills on them but I don't want to get into the philosophy and the pro / cons of this approach in the industry...Rather given the trails and activities in your area and what we typically find in South Africa are you having more fun? Progressing your skills? Why? (3) Personally I am not sure if it worth upgrading to a 29er between 120-140mm. I think it might be better to just upgrade my drive train (12 speed) and my wheels (bigger and better hubs for wider tyre coverage) and maybe call it a day. Ideally I would like to upgrade the fork but 2nd hand forks in RSA is a mission and often way overpriced. It is almost cheaper to just buy a 2nd hand 34 140mm-160mm bike than go shopping for such a fork. Now the Trance X type of bikes look like something that might be worth the upgrade...Opinions? *Disclaimer 1: It seems like a horrible time to buy new now given the state of the industry, South African market and our economic prospects - but lets put that aside and say there is money for a new bike. * Disclaimer 2: The obvious best way to know is to go ride a few bikes, do demo days (if you still get those) and / or make new mtb friends and borrow their bikes. But some desktop research will not hurt...

I ordered Freerider Elements from CRC yesterday lunch (R 1330 with DHL shipping option). This morning DHL phoned me to let me know shoes are at customs and need payment for clearance. Stoked! ...until I opened the DHL customs invoice - R 710 - ouch! Hmm, at the end pretty close to the local prices - I guess without DHL shipping you safe a R200-R300 more... Any way - CRC are running a special on a lot of five-ten shoes including the Impacts...size could be problem with more popular models and colours. Lol, might have jumped the gun a bit on the shoes, since I must still decide on the new bike (Trance 2 vs Reign 2, vs well not much close price wise), but hoping all comes together for nice mtb holiday end of month in Cape Town. Also thinking of going Saints...

Have the option of adding this to the Xmas wishlist. Is this any good? http://sigma-evo-lights.com/en/karma-evo/illumination.html Want to get it to start some night racing in Pta (ASG events) and try some night rides. Would this be enough, or do I need extra lights? Any better cheaper options? (they go for about 1K).

This Anthem vs Trance thing is something I have thought over a bit... I used to have a Giant VT-2 (something in between a current Trance / Reign) as my first bike - also a real classic bike. Really enjoyed the bike and got some of my best results in marathons and half-marathons on the bike. I knew nothing better and just raced as fast as I can. I felt really comfortable most of the time and had confidence going downhill. The bike got stolen and I replaced it with an anthem X2 (or one with XT spec, but silver frame). Also a really legendary bike that got really good reviews all over the web. I really good budget fs xc bike. I reasoned that for the training and racing you do most of the time in Gauteng - you don't need a big trail bike or in the VT's case a big all-mountain bike...I wanted something quicker and lighter... I am still happy with the Anthem. But...I definitely don't have the same confidence going downhill - maybe I am just getting old - but I think the geometry is less inspiring, it feels way easier to go over the handle bars. The bike is quick, but I am not getting drastically better results - it is only really quicker in the straight jeep track and very tight single track (often a mess in races any way), but I sorta take the same approach climbing (it is lighter, but I spin up at gradual pace any way) and downhill/technical stuff I am slower/chicken out more...It was fine for the one 3-day stage race I did, but my ass did suffer on that very racy seat (since replaced it with Gobi). It is an awesome bike for the Nissan series and doing half-marathons. I think it really depends on the riding you do and what your priorities are...I think my next Giant will be a Trance. (I think a Reign is overkill for Gauteng).

Hi Everyone, Here is a link to some videos I shot during the Grape Escape using my GoPro 960. http://www.youtube.com/user/WhiskeyjackZA I only had my camera for 2 days before doing the event so there was limited time for setup and getting the angles right. I was also limited to the free online video editors I could access at that stage. The quality is not as good as the original raw footage (looks awesome even on big LCD), but I am slowly getting to understand the most effective methods and tools for getting the videos on to youtube/facebook in the best quality possible (and small enough to view with our bandwith). Tips from other GoPro users are welcome!

Update: We managed to come to an amicable agreement/solution.

They have offered to find me another VT-2 in the same condition. They have placed an add on the forum as well. I guess it is fair. As long as the replacement bike is in the same condition and contains the same upgrades I had on my bike (tubeless tyres, lighter rims, new drive train parts etc...). But so far I am holding thumbs and hoping for the best. They have not communicated with me since last week...

It is. I just changed the max value to 10K when I changed insurance companies. (used to be 16K). It is all risk. All my insurance want from me is a quote on how much a new replacement bike would cost. In this case, obviously I cannot get one for an Anthem and would have to quote a hardtail or something for 10K. My premium would, however, go up substantially on the next bike I insure.

@Bontie Don't put words into my mouth. I don't expect them to cover the 10-20K difference. In terms of being in the same position. Just take into consideration that even should I get a 10K payout I still need to spend $$ to get to a current dual suspension bike. The cheapest bikes start at around 15K and a replacement Anthem X2 or Trance X2 would be 20K+. I would also lose a back-up/buddy bike since I would now only have 1 new bike. The claiming part is important since I did not loose the bike!! I don't mind paying for insurance if they are covering my mistakes.

@nickC I strongly considered joining the club for mountain bike outrides - because they seemed like a bunch of really nice guys, always very friendly the couple of times I popped into the shop and the fact that they get good numbers on their outrides also reflect positively on them. This makes the whole experience just the more unfortunate and unexpected...

@Snoek: Thanks. Great advice. I will speak to them first this afternoon and then look at the options available. I assume this means I have to go and open a case with the police? Do I open a case against them? (legal advice needed on this...) It still means my premium will go up but maybe I can negotiate something with the insurance. @Snoek: How long did the small claims court process take and do you reckon it is worth it?

< ="-" ="text/; =utf-8">< name="ProgId" ="Word.">< name="Generator" ="Microsoft Word 12">< name="Originator" ="Microsoft Word 12"><> I just landed and will go and speak to Bennie tomorrow (almost 20h of airports and flying). I feel I just need to set a few things straight after his reply. (1) Of course I am upset. I just lost a bike that will be expensive to replace. (2) I don't see how it could be my fault. I think it is very understandable to blame the bike shop when they lost your bike and it was stolen from their washing bay. (3) It did not publicly humiliate you. I merely stated what happened. I was disappointed that it took two emails from me to get a response - 2 days later I might add. Still I think my posts have been fairly diplomatic considering my situation. (4) At no time did I say I was not willing to talk. (5) I also stated that I have been happy with your services in the past and did not expect this to happen. (6) My only demand has consistently been for you to look at helping me with my insurance value (10K) - either by claiming yourself or whatever else you might consider. I did not demand a new bike! (Even if you give me a bike at cost, I will still have to add a lot of money out of my own pocket with/without an insurance payout - a replacement Trance/Anthem X2 is 20K+ retail) Given this I have to take offense to: "You simply blaming us and making demands before we have even assessed all the alternatives is quite disturbing, and in my mind, unfair." You give me no choice but to quote your last (before today only) email to me: " I am sorry about your bike. However we as a shop can not be held liable nor responsible for your bike being stolen or damaged whilst in our care. This is also clearly stated on our jobcards. We are very careful with our customers bikes and try to ensure that it is locked up, safe and supervised at all times, however, criminals have devious plans and strategies and exploit/create any opportunity. We have discussed the case with our insurance and they confirmed that it is not possible for us to claim/insure customer's bikes as it is not our property. Our broker is of the opinion that your bike should be claimable from your insurance, even though it was not under your direct control at the time. It is similar to your car being damaged/stolen whilst at a service at the dealer. They also advised that we can not report it to the police as it is not our property. We will however try to assist you as best we can to limit the financial impact of the theft of your bicycle and for you to get a new bicycle. I have asked our broker Eddie Scott, to contact you to assist you with lodging a claim with your insurance and to advise how to ensure things get sorted out asap...? It seems to me that you only gave me one choice and was very clear in it - we will give you a discount on a new bike but you must claim from your insurance.

< ="-" ="text/; =utf-8">< name="ProgId" ="Word.">< name="Generator" ="Microsoft Word 12">< name="Originator" ="Microsoft Word 12"><> I just landed and will go and speak to Bennie tomorrow (almost 20h of airports and flying). I feel I just need to set a few things straight after his reply. (1) Of course I am upset. I just lost a bike that will be expensive to replace. (2) I don't see how it could be my fault. I think it is very understandable to blame the bike shop when they lost your bike and it was stolen from their washing bay. (3) It did not publicly humiliate you. I merely stated what happened. I was disappointed that it took two emails from me to get a response - 2 days later I might add. Still I think my posts have been fairly diplomatic considering my situation. (4) At no time did I say I was not willing to talk. (5) I also stated that I have been happy with your services in the past and did not expect this to happen. (6) My only demand has consistently been for you to look at helping me with my insurance value (10K) - either by claiming yourself or whatever else you might consider. I did not demand a new bike! (Even if you give me a bike at cost, I will still have to add a lot of money out of my own pocket with/without an insurance payout - a replacement Trance/Anthem X2 is 20K+ retail) Given this I have to take offense to: "You simply blaming us and making demands before we have even assessed all the alternatives is quite disturbing, and in my mind, unfair." You give me no choice but to quote your last (before today only) email to me: " I am sorry about your bike. However we as a shop can not be held liable nor responsible for your bike being stolen or damaged whilst in our care. This is also clearly stated on our jobcards. We are very careful with our customers bikes and try to ensure that it is locked up, safe and supervised at all times, however, criminals have devious plans and strategies and exploit/create any opportunity. We have discussed the case with our insurance and they confirmed that it is not possible for us to claim/insure customer's bikes as it is not our property. Our broker is of the opinion that your bike should be claimable from your insurance, even though it was not under your direct control at the time. It is similar to your car being damaged/stolen whilst at a service at the dealer. They also advised that we can not report it to the police as it is not our property. We will however try to assist you as best we can to limit the financial impact of the theft of your bicycle and for you to get a new bicycle. I have asked our broker Eddie Scott, to contact you to assist you with lodging a claim with your insurance and to advise how to ensure things get sorted out asap...? It seems to me that you only gave me one choice and was very clear in it - we will give you a discount on a new bike but you must claim from your insurance.