ConradS

No worries. I hope that you are sorted now

This seems to be what you are looking for. You are welcome to have it for free (you pay shipping if required). Please PM me if still in need.

Hi Matt. Thank you for your detailed response. I understood all of this before my original post. I know that your hands are tied should a situation like this arise. My issue was that people pretend like that risk does not exist and that the seller has no reason not to want to use the facility. I assumed that you incorporated this facility mainly aimed at new sellers, which I agree with. In this regard someone earlier said "use your common sense". Established Bikehub users just have less risk than new ones so the Bikehub pay offers the ability to reduces that risk should the seller seems sketchy. My issue was that the consensus seemed to lean towards there being no risk and thus sellers avoiding the facility are untrustworthy. The stated argument "has it ever happened" is not valid. There was a time when no EFT scam has ever happened, no theft, no murder. Unlock a door and some scammer will open it eventually. My fight was never with you as I know that you are aware of any shortcomings and do allow me to remove the option from my listing. I also know that you are only trying to consistently evolve this website and you are doing a great job at it but this buyer seller risk is just something that you will never be able to completely eliminate. I do agree with your stance on turn it off if you don't want to use it, don't accept an offer there and then take the deal offline. For most people this facility will work very well, for others not so much. I just want Bikehub users to understand that there are two sides to every story and some sellers may have legitimate reasons not to want to use the facility and they should not be branded as "stay away" for this.

There will always be risk. Including the risk of wrecking your car on the way to Postnet when shipping the item. All manner of risk yes. But if I sell an item via the old school EFT approach that was the norm for many years, there is no risk of me loosing the money if I only ship when I have the funds. In which way will Bikehub pay reduce my risk? (if you say that it reduces risk for both parties) I get that it reduces the EFT scam risk but so does waiting for clearance from my bank. How else does it reduce my risk? I honestly am open to hearing the argument for this. What am I missing?

I will admit that my first statement was unclear. I am not saying that Bikehub automatically sides with the buyer, I meant that that could be the outcome of the dispute in my scenario which leaves me down a crank. Obviously Bikehub will investigate (I made it clear that I have great respect for their approach to issues). In the stated scenario, Bikehub will find themselves in a very difficult situation. In that dispute, the seller who did nothing wrong now has a risk of loosing out big. That is my point. There is reason for a seller not to want to use the facility in an attempt to reduce his own risk. IMO it is very similar to a seller demanding cash for the item as it reduces the risk of fake EFT. The buyer now has more risk as they need to withdraw cash and could potentially be mugged. The seller reduces their risk by increasing risk to buyer and no one will call the seller unreasonable for demanding cash in the world that we live in. Yes, I have never had a buyer claim misrepresented item shipped but that's because there was little incentive. A scammer would have little to gain without the idea of a refund initiated by a middleman. I happen to have a damaged and useless XT M785 crank. Will you sell me a working one through Bikehub pay and let me illustrate my point? Any reasonable person would understand my point here. Bikehub pay is not without merit but the idea that a seller not wanting to risk the above scenario making them automatically untrustworthy is absurd. My grievance is not with the facility itself, it is with this notion that anyone not wanting to use it should immediately be avoided.

Have you heard of the prevalent "EFT and send my driver" scam? Buyers are just as often the scammers. Both parties have reason to distrust.

My point exactly. This thread makes it seem like "no reason not to use the facility" where in reality it is only a shift of risk from one area to another. If the seller knows that the items was fairly represented and shipped then they may not want to take the risk increase which is a fair stance. This thread has made it seem like a seller avoiding the facility automatically has something to hide. That is what I am trying to address.

Unfortunately a simple photograph does not prove anything. I could have made a photograph of boxing one crank an then sent another. It's my word against his in that situation. The argument was for no reason not to trust Bikehub pay. So "mitigating" implies some residual risk, so there is some reason not to want to use the option as a seller. Waiting for an eft to clear virtually eliminates my risk. I am not trying to argue that the facility has no merit only that this idea that the seller has no reason not to use it is inaccurate. The implication was made that is a seller does not want to use the option then they must be trying to scam the buyer. I am merely saying that I have other reasons for not using the option as it increases my risk when I only offer shipping as a favour to the buyer.

It is said that there is no reason for a seller to be uncomfortable with Bikehub pay but I would like to present a hypothetical scenario. I have a quite popular XT crankset on my bike. It hardly has any marks and is in excellent condition. Now lets imagine that I decide to sell the crank on this platform. A 9.5/10 condition crankset is listed. Now across the country some guy has just stripped the pedal threads on his left side crank arm (most of us know at least one guy that has done this). The guy jumps on Bikehub, buys my crank and completes the payment through the Bikehub pay facility. I thoroughly package the crank and head to Postnet. A few days later the buyer sends pictures of his damaged XT crank to Bikehub claiming that I misrepresented the condition. Bikehub refunds his money. Do I still have no reason to feel uncomfortable? Now tomorrow I decide to write it off as a one off incident and sell my set of XT brakes. Spotless condition, 90% pad life. A buyer pays through Bikehub pay and again I carefully package the brakes and head to Postnet. The weekend arrives, the buyer mounts my trusty brakes to his latest build, enjoys a leisurely ride, gets home and tells Bikehub that I mailed him a box of expired chocolate bars...and not even the flavour that he prefers! I only offer shipping as an option to accommodate a buyer that cannot find a suitable item nearby. I am doing it to help them, why should I bear all of the risk? I have a great deal of respect for the people at Bikehub management in their approach to all sorts of issues, unlike those jokers at OLX. I understand the need for a payment method like this (mainly for sellers without a long standing account) and I don't think that the fee is unreasonable like other have said (they do a lot for the fee that they ask). But can we at least just agree that buying items online has inherent risk and the system only shifts that risk from buyer to seller.

I don't usually share this kind of thing but I love this picture enough to make an exception. This is my dad's bike. SRAM Red 10 speed, 6.5kg. It is oldish now but still rides like a champ!

How the hell do some cyclists travel on the right? How can half the traffic use one side and the other half use the other side? That is not how traffic flows. Law says left so we use left...you know what pisses me off the most? When guys use the right side because they can "see oncoming traffic that way" but they still expect you to get out of their way when you approach, even though you follow the law and they don't. So they break the law so they can see better, which means they know what is coming, therefore they can get out of the way much easier, whereas the guy on the left who is acting within the law cannot see approaching cars. The law says that when you are using tar roads in South Africa, use the left lane, regardless if you are running, cycling or using a motor vehicle. The worst part for me is, knowing that we are never going to have this issue sorted out, there will always be some moron obstructing traffic because "it is safer that way"