Andrew Armstrong

Aunty Devi asked for advice on where to buy a new bike? "I know just the place..."

would be ironic (and poetic justice) if the post got 91,000 views, people at the office show little sympathy for my plight.

Saw the word ‘refund’ on The Hub, logged in but nothing yet. Which goes to show that the squeakiest wheel only gets the most oil if it’s genuine and not a cheap knock off? I am very pleased for the person getting the refund who called to thank me. He too was initially threatened with legal fire and brimstone; oh how the (genuine) wheel turns Will let you know if I am refunded.

Ask yourself how do shops get away with selling fake bikes and components in South Africa? I somehow don’t think I am alone in being scammed although I would like to post that R91,000 is the high water mark so far It is unlikely I would have ever have found out were it not for the LBS Turramurra Cyclery in Sydney. A shop the size of the coffee area at Cycle Lab. And yet within a minute of entering the shop they said my bike was fake. They took pictures and prepared a report very professional. Now compare this to another Cycle Science victim (I know of three fake Pinarellos and one S-Works from this post) who took his fake Dogma to Cycle Lab to be set up. You know where they adjust the saddle height, reach, etc, etc. How come they (like the small LBS in Turramurra) didn’t tell him, ‘your bike is fake’? They happily set up his fake Dogma and told him how stunning it was! Attached the letter I received from Turramurra Cyclery, pity they aren’t here. Note to self, find new bike shop for service, mmm this might be tricky under the present circumstances perhaps wait a little bit first. Hi Andrew.pdf

Just arrived in England on business trip to pay for bike(s). I must say The Hub has cheered me up quite a bit on flight. Wife now knows I paid R91,000 for first fake bike and over R80,000 on replacement bike down under. Serendipitously I am on another continent, as my wife realises why I couldn't afford to 'fix the garden' Note to self: Check international roaming is switched off Another Note to self: I don't think small bottle of duty free perfume to wife when I return in two and half weeks will cut it this time, perhaps include Toblerone. Cycle Science finally admit after weeks of obfuscation around parallel imports, grey imports, made in same factory as real bike, we have awesome guarantee that yes they sold me a fake bike. You would think that would be the end of it. But no, they now say, I knew all along I was buying a fake bike! So I remain 'pinnacled in the intense inane', of the Cycle Science Wonderland. Ask yourself; 'Why on earth then did I buy a new Pinarello from Turramurra Cycles in Sydney when I found out mine was fake?' According to CS 'Turramurra Cycles pressured me into buying it'. So there you have it, the Ozzies are to blame for my sad state of affairs. For every silver lining there is a dark cloud.

I didn't ask for the bike to sprayed i requested the 'black on black' colour i hope that clears it up.

Just to reiterate it isn’t just the frame that is fake, the following components on the bike, in addition to the frame, are fake: Wheels – the supplied wheels are an inferior copy that had been branded with DT Swiss stickers. Saddle – the saddle is far too heavy, and not the right shape, to be a Selle Italia. Handlebar/Stem – the carbon stem/handlebar combo was not a real Most Talon bar. The saddle and bar/stem are in fact fake too. The letter from their attorney Vaughan Hattingh Attorneys to me, stated, they sold me a "grey import Pinarello bicycle" (their italics). This after the fact I presented proof that it was fake. I hope for Mr Hattingh's sake he is paid by the hour and not on his success rate.

Daniel Kahneman, Nobel prize winner in Economics demonstrated that people become risk seeking when all their options are bad. Please contact my attorney so you can arrange my refund with him. Perhaps you can pay his fees as well?

My condolences to the family, my heart goes out to you.

They just had one in my size (51) at Turramurra Cyclery in Sydney that could use my group set. This was on the Wednesday the Three Peaks Challenge was on the Sunday. Pardon the segue but the race was amazing 235km of up and down and well organised check it out online.

Attached copy of invoice for bike, for the curious, still hurts. dogma_inv copy.tiff

i bought new wheels the ones with the bike were fake, however, didn't buy new group set.

Thanks for all the posts, a long day, I will read all the posts and respond tomorrow. I am riding at 07:00 from Valverde in the Cradle tomorrow, one of guys with me will be on a fake bike. For those of you that think a fake Dogma is easy to spot check it out for yourself. I leave for London tomorrow night, on a business trip after all I better starting earning to pay for my biking woes. For those of you that think I am a LOMBARD (long on money but a real dick) you will be pleased to know that I am sitting in the back of the steam chicken tomorrow night. This hasn't been cheap! The publicity this post is generating is a good thing as consumer rights are trampled every day through obfuscation and veiled threats. However, at this rate my wife is soon going to hear that I paid R91k for a bike twice and that is why we couldn't do the garden this summer. It is just as well that I will be a few thousand miles away for a few weeks when she finds out. I am not that brave! As for Cycle Science, they 'remain pinnacled in the intense inane' of their own doing.

I think the advice of not going on social media if I want my money back is probably apt. However, I said to my lawyer there are two things we shouldn’t consider, firstly signing any form of non-disclosure agreement and secondly that they re-sell the fake bike. Last Saturday, late morning I was cycling in the Cradle when I guy a similar age came up next to me and said ‘my daughter has the same bike as you’. Well can you imagine, if someone’s daughter had bought the fake bike and came up next to me and said, ‘my daughter had a bike like yours but it cracked while going downhill and now she is in a wheelchair’.

Thank you, to those of you gave some good advice on how to get my money back and some words of encouragement. This has been a lugubrious experience to put it politely. To those of you who thought I should have known better. Hindsight is always 20/20. However, I am not alone, I know of two other people who have been similarly ripped off. The fakes, if you have a look at the picture look a lot like the real thing to the unsuspecting or untrained eye. I trusted the bike shop this is an error of judgment, but I have been going there for over five years I even bought my son’s Bianci there. (note to self, check out Bianci) To those of you who some how think I deserved to be ripped off. Perhaps you would like to borrow my fake frame, fake wheels and fake handlebars and practice some technical descending! To the conspiracy theorists that think there is more to the story than simply being unwittingly sold a fake Pinarello by Cycle Science. I am sorry to disappoint you it is that simple. If it weren’t Cycle Science would have posted online and refuted Pinarello’s statement that the frame I purchased is fake. All I asked Cycle Science was to take back all the fake bike components they sold me anything genuine I would keep. They declined this offer. While I am disappointing you Neil Armstrong really did walk on the moon.

Perhaps a better analogy to buying a car, is buying a watch you don't ask the jeweller who the importer is. Similarly, the watch works fine at first but over time it just doesn't keep time as it should, you take it back. They reassure you, all is fine and it just needs to be run in. Similarly, it wasn't a snap decision, I dilly dallied for three months before buying the bike. I went to Cycle Science as I wanted to support the local bike shop, I didn't haggle for a low price, i just wanted a Dogma to ride a race for my 50th birthday. I gave my ten year old Pinarello away when I got the new bike. Ironic that I gave away a genuine Pinarello and kept the fake. When investing so much in a bike, it is heartbreaking that a shop can sell counterfeit goods. In hindsight I feel quite stupid for being so trusting I didn't even know fake bikes existed. But surely the retailer should feel some sense of remorse or shame for preying on its own loyal customers? So better to post my experience so when you buy a bike you aren't so trusting. Similarly, a fake frame and handle bars of unknown manufacturing origin can simply crack (check out the stories of fake bikes). When you buy a branded product it is because you trust the brand. When I told Cycle Science the bike was fake they replied, 'grey, fake, whatever'. So much for putting the customer first.

I'm not optimistic about getting my money back but Cycle Science don't think they are doing anything wrong that is the frustrating bit. They offered to re-sell the bike on my behalf!!! Can you imagine they sell my fake bike to someone who seriously injures them self or worse. I would be just as culpable as them. When I told them the bike they sold me was fake their response, 'grey, fake, whatever'! Chilling if you look at the stories of these fake bikes and the risk they pose and the accidents they have occasioned.

Good talking to you yesterday. Below is the response from Pinarello. Hi Winston, I officially confirm you that the frame on picture you sent me is FAKE. You can forward this email to who he may concern to confirm my statement. Don’t hesitate to contact me if you need any additional information. Best Regards, Luciano. I also confirm after inspecting the attached frame and bars that they are not like the Pinarello Dogma 65.1 frames and Most Talon bars we purchase from Pinarello Italy. Please let me know if you require anything further. Regards Winston Clark | ASG Sport Solutions
116B Glen Avenue | Willow Glen | Pretoria | Tel: 012 751 41 30 | Fax: 086 730 3099

I did that below confirmation from ASG and Pinarello that the bike is a fake, the picture in the story was taken by ASG

normal price, if not higher R91,000 the only thing genuine was the group set. I went into a shop asking for a bike, I never asked where the bike is coming from. Just like i wouldn't ask where a watch is coming from if i went into a jeweller.

I certainly didn't know it was a fake before buying it, below some of the identifiers of my fake Pinarello. Loads of stories of horror stories about fake frames, why pay for a respected brand and then accept a cheap knock off. No Serial Number underneath the bottom bracket Different Rear Derailleur Hangar. Different seat clamp Dogma 65.1 is uses 65 ton carbon not 60 as noted on the top tube. The cable ports and cable stops are also different The headset is utilising a different upper bearing assembly The outer weave of the carbon is quite different much finer. The BB shell is English thread not Italian. The frames decals are notably different to a real one. The made in Italy sticker on the down does not exist on the proper ones. The rear seatstay is a different shape.

I purchased a Pinarello Dogma from Cycle Science in Broadacres. Two months after purchasing the bicycle, I was informed when having the bike serviced in Australia that the bike is a fake. When I returned (after buying a genuine Dogma) a week later, I went to Cycle Science and asked for my money back. Their response, I knew it was a grey import. I received an email from Pinarello certifying that the bike Cycle Science sold me is fake. I have attached a picture of the fake frame. You must be morally bankrupt if you can sell a fake frame to someone and send them down a hill at 80km/hr. After closer inspection of the bike it was revealed, handle bars, wheels and even the saddle was fake. You have to wonder how they can stay in business selling counterfeit goods. I wonder how many other people have purchased counterfeit bicycles and accessories from Cycle Science