Well, i just found out about this forum from another friend and what was going on on it. When speaking to Chunky about what was needed to go faster, to make your training mroe efficient he always gave the correct advice, being a computer nerd i went and checked up everythjign that he said with whatever reading material i could find and the advice he gave was sound. I used products, i used them from the age of 16, when racing was very tough and hard and although they do make you go faster, i noticed that you lost a certain amount of respect for what you were doing while racing/training on performance improving drugs, and generally a decline in my overall enjoyment of what the sport was all about. Yes they are illegal to use as a competitive cyclist, and i dont believe that it does you any good from a long term performance gain. Although i ahve not tried EPO or other blood doping type activities, as i value my life more than the performance gain. I can also tell you now that i experienced my most successful seasons racing clean, and i atribute that to the respect i gained for training and diet and if i had used drugs to improve those i dont think i would have enjoyed it that much. I havemany years of provincial colours and national classic victories behind my name and MANY drug tests and i was never caught for anything as i never used them in those events. I cna tell you a story of one incident, it was the Tzaneen classic, and i swollowed 5 stimulant based tablets at the start of the race, and when i say i flew, that four letter word does no justice to the way that i was going. But as we all know there is always a draw back and as i got to the bottom of the climb (Magoebaskloof sp?) all my batteries ran dead, and i was so buggered and tired that i could not make it up the climb. and i got to the climb 3 mins on the bunch. As one can well imagine i didnt use that technique again. It is my true feelings that people who use them make the mistake of thinking of rewards will be as good that if they did it clean. And yes Chunky did give the right advice, he did say this will work with that etc. But who is guilty, the gun shop owner or the person who pulled the trigger, and that a great failure in the sport of cycling that its sad that the crime is not taking the drug its getting caught. Anyone that knows how tough stage racing is knows that Floyd landis took the stuff, it showed up in his tests and on that stage, if we are to presume the other riders were clean, which i wouldlike to, you could even see the way they climbed in comparison to Floyd Landis, he was a machine. I took an androgenic testosterone tablet course once, and i can tell you now thats exectly what it did to me. I could ride 230km a day non stop and not get tired, my recovery was suoer human and i thought i was going to break my bicycle between my legs. (No i didnt race on it) But he will go down in history as one of the worlds greatest cheats, the only person to have cheated in the tour. Remembering that Pedro Delgado had used Probenicid, i masking agent which basically was diaretic sp? (not checking it) so that when they did a urine test, levels of whatever were diluted. Banned in the Olympics but not in cycling. The sad thing was is that they probably could have done it without the use of anything.