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This is where it all started, so it might as well end here. Here is a letter that has been sent to all residents of the cradle
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To all Cradle residents
Late last year the cycling issue was out of hand and there were a number of incidents. A meeting was held at Teak place between a number of players mainly been residents and cyclist representatives.
This meeting was heated and the resolution was that I would represent the residents and work together with CGC , representative cyclist clubs and Metro to find a win win solution.
A few meetings took place, but the initiate was always from side and at one stage Giovanni indicated that the meetings were a waste of time ,and the problem was with the road and if this was sorted out there would be no problems.
Cut a long story short. Metro promised to take a serious stand against cyclist’s who ride in the middle of the road, by ways of fines ect. This was backed by everyone who attended the meeting at Kloofzicht. (Ian jones can supply names)
A lawyers letter was also addressed to Cradle residents from a cyclyst. (on the hub)
To date nothing has happened and the situation is getting out of control and I have received many calls from resident’s wanting to know what’s going on
When I took this on, there were many residents who said this was a waste of time and they had other ways of dealing with the problem. I still went ahead thinking that all the parties were serious.
The only parties I believe were serious were Ian Jones and Andrew Mclean.
Giovanni was never committed (in my opinion) and club 100 never attended any meetings.
I have sent letters to the following parties
· Mogale Metro
· CGC (Central Gauteng Cycling)
· Cradle management authority.
Mogale Metro - has not bothered to respond and from this we can take that they are not interested.
CGC – Giovanni passed this on to Joaquin from Valverde, and Joaquin’s response was that CGC had not disciplined any clubs and had no authority to do so. To quote from CGC website ‘CGC members are expected to adhere to the CGC code of conduct. Failure to do so may result in disciplinary action being taken against the cyclist as well as the club and could include expulsion from the club” Apart from this Joaquin also contradicts himself about cyclist’s riding in the road. Joaquin’s main argument is that no one can discipline cyclists, and only the police can do this, and till that happens, residents must just live with it.
Cradle Management Authority
Events that take place in the cradle need approval from COH WHS (Cradle Management Authority) The MA at this time has no guideline’s for any events and this is not due anytime soon. In other words there is no management happening and it is a free for all.
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The conclusion is I am not going to carry on with this as it is a waste of time. I am happy to meet with residents to give them a more detailed report and other residents can take it from here.
What I can say is that if cyclists are going to come out here looking for trouble, please don’t complain when you get it right back.
I will post this letter on the hub.
Maybe put out a message on the radio network about the incident and try get a reg number. It's hit and run and the driver, resident or not needs to be charged. Its that simple. Works both ways.
Mr Ples' date=' with all due respect, I am still waiting for replies to my two posts on page 32 amongst others. I have not engaged in calling you any names. I have tried to be civilised with you and engage in a civilised discussion. Yet you have chosen to ignore my civilised attempt to engage with you. You only seem to reply to name calling posts. Based on this it is clear that you and rest of the cradle residents are not serious about any solution to the issue. So while cyclists are trying to resolve the issue you clearly don't want to. How can there be a solution if you cradle residents don't want to try and find one?[/quote'].If you read the whole thread you would not make this assumption that cradle residents are not looking for a solution. THE FACT IS THAT IT IS THE CRADLE RESIDENTS WHO HAVE BEEN PUSHING FOR A SOLUTION , STARTING AS LONG AGO AS 3 YEARS. Read the thread before making such inane posts.
two people who, in my opinion, shouldn't be entitled to this "vote" you talk off. from their comments (one published and the other reported), they should be in jail.
Cycysts do bring business' date=' but not as much as they make outMost cyclysts ride in and ride out and MAYBE have a breakfast[/quote']But you forget how many of us bring our families to the area when we are not cycling - I personally took the family to the Cradle Restuarant and the Lion and Rhino Park over Christmas, as well as visiting Teaks place.So the cyclists (when they're on their bikes) may not bring much business in to the area (usually between 06:30 and 09:30 on a Saturday and Sunday), but I wouldn't underestimate the amount they bring in with their families, and recommendations to friends, when they are not on their bikes!Many times, when I'm on my bike, do I see something and think 'I must go back to visit that'.
Maybe we (cyclists) should somehow communicate to the businesses in the area that the residents are threatening their (the businesses) incomes.Why you threatening to do this now. You have allready posted cradle trout and Brookwood. I know which way these guys are going to vote.But now the Taxi driver threats. We can behave badly and if u dont like it we are going post the names of your business on the web and then maybe spam your business , post your wifes details on the web, send u lawyers letters and the list goes on. Oh and yes please make us welcome in the cradle.You are your own worst enemy. Anyway if the law was forced then there would be no problems and we can all live happly. Anyway why are u worried. Go cycle and behave badly somewhere else. Talking about all this pull you have. You not as famous and loved as you think. Talk about cyclysts at any dinner party, check out some of the fb groups and then maybe reality will hit.Oh the famous Holy Roller with the pathetic avatar. I promise you no one is taking you seriously this side. Hook up with slow poke and take your "boney" for a ride "Ek se" and just "skim" how we can make those cradle ous mal my broer. And let them just "tune" any thing and we will moer them stukkend. Yes im sure you are going to bring millions to the cradle.
Cycysts do bring business' date=' but not as much as they make outMost cyclysts ride in and ride out and MAYBE have a breakfast[/quote']But you forget how many of us bring our families to the area when we are not cycling - I personally took the family to the Cradle Restuarant and the Lion and Rhino Park over Christmas, as well as visiting Teaks place.So the cyclists (when they're on their bikes) may not bring much business in to the area (usually between 06:30 and 09:30 on a Saturday and Sunday), but I wouldn't underestimate the amount they bring in with their families, and recommendations to friends, when they are not on their bikes!Many times, when I'm on my bike, do I see something and think 'I must go back to visit that'.
Maybe we (cyclists) should somehow communicate to the businesses in the area that the residents are threatening their (the businesses) incomes.Why you threatening to do this now. You have allready posted cradle trout and Brookwood. I know which way these guys are going to vote.But now the Taxi driver threats. We can behave badly and if u dont like it we are going post the names of your business on the web and then maybe spam your business , post your wifes details on the web, send u lawyers letters and the list goes on. Oh and yes please make us welcome in the cradle.You are your own worst enemy. Anyway if the law was forced then there would be no problems and we can all live happly. Anyway why are u worried. Go cycle and behave badly somewhere else. Talking about all this pull you have. You not as famous and loved as you think. Talk about cyclysts at any dinner party, check out some of the fb groups and then maybe reality will hit.
Cradle' date=' sorry man, just trying to be neutral, but I can see that you really have a strong distaste for cyclists.
How often do you encounter bad cyclists?
[/quote']SlowbeeA few thingsI cycle 2 or 3 times a week. I also ride a bike. I never have a problem, cause i dont go looking for trouble.If you read the thread with the photos, you will see what we deal with. The question is if this was happening at your house, would you be happy.The effort has come from OUR side to sort the problem out, starting about 3 years ago and a lot of promises were made and nothing ever happenend.After spending some time on your forum engaging with cyclysts , my point of view is I / we know why we are not coming right and now the we must push for the law to be applied. Hubbers can give many interpretations on the act to suit there own needs. Bottom line is at the teak meeting metro made it crystal clear, single file and the only place you can ride 2 abreast is in a dedicated cycle lane. If there is a cycle lane, irrespective of the condition, the law says a vechicle can not ride in the lane and a bicycle can not ride in the road. Lets put pressure on the metro and the cpf.
This thread is great in letting us know what cyclysts think of the residents. Ill be passing the link to this thread on to ALL residents and im sure you are all going to very welcome in the area. Those residents who were sitting on the fence will now be easily convinced.
not up to you or them on who's welcome' date=' public road...
I wonder, with the size of the cycling community in the country, think of the
amount of people riding the argus / 94.7, how a thread like this would
affect the businesses in the cradle.
[/quote'] As per the Teak meeting, Cycysts do bring business, but not as much as they make out, infact in some cases business is lost becauce who wants to go to a venue and fight 100's cyclysts with bad attitudes. Much easier to go somewhere else. Most cyclysts ride in and ride out and MAYBE have a breakfast. Club 100 and Cycle lab ride in and out with out stopping anywhere, so in not sure what business they are bringing. The cradle has a lot of wedding venues that are booked up in some cases up to a year, so im not sure what business is going to be lost by these guys. A lot of game reserves, so i cant see them losing business. The mountain bike guys are always welcome, so no problem there.As to the public road thing, just shows your arogance, we can ride where we like and you must just accept it. No problem, who wants to ride in an hostile enviroment where you are made to feel unwelcome. As to the events,residents will show strong resistance. So who is the loser now. You are always going on about how this is the last decent place to ride in Gauteng and now you going to mess this up as well. No skin of our backs, i promise you.
This thread is great in letting us know what cyclysts think of the residents. Ill be passing the link to this thread on to ALL residents and im sure you are all going to very welcome in the area. Those residents who were sitting on the fence will now be easily convinced.
Trevor' date=' The forum gives you a general idea of the type of cyclyst you are dealing with. Forget it, u wont get through. Like i have always said, these guys have the same mentality as taxi drivers. As per the teak meeting, the residents wanted a solution , but not at any cost. If cyclysts are going to make our lives a nightmare, show no respect for the law, well then the authorities have to pe pushed to take action and we must spend time and effort in this arena and not waste time with cyclyst clubs ect. All proposed events must be met with strong resistance and petitions. Who wants to ride in an area where you are unwelcome.[/quote'] With respect I don't accept with the notion "the type of cyclyst (sic) you are dealing with"!! You have never met so refrain from generalizing! I am for your consumption the first to castigate fellow cyclists that behave like prats! The materiality that you sadly are missing is that this is not purely a general cyclist phenomena but sadly a South African delusion of grandeur!! We behave simply as we please because we are not mature enough to accept that democracy comes with responsibility and accountability!Whilst on the subject of taxi's why don't you implement similar blockades and aggresive tactics to stop them? I'm sure they utilize "your" road and are de facto also an automatic bloody nuisance?? Let me answer why! Because it is easier to address softer issues at the expense of material ones that plague lawlessness in the rainbowland. Much the same as our futile government and its policing. Secondly and most importantly it is because you do not wish to have an AK47 shoved up the ringpiece! My my how brave!.If you read the full thread you would realize that nowhere did any resident propose or plan blockades. This was from Marks side and we are still waiting for his sources. Read the thread. Amazing how things get twisted.As to the ak47 part, maybe come spend some time here and you will see how wrong you are. and i mean really way off. Again its easy to move the spotlight. The only way to sort this out, is that Metro and the local police must become involved. This topic must come up at every cpf meeting. The general view on this forum is that Cyclysts can beahave like they want with out any recourse and demand this and that and the local community must just accept it. Well lets see.
Trevor, The forum gives you a general idea of the type of cyclyst you are dealing with. Forget it, u wont get through. Like i have always said, these guys have the same mentality as taxi drivers. As per the teak meeting, the residents wanted a solution , but not at any cost. If cyclysts are going to make our lives a nightmare, show no respect for the law, well then the authorities have to pe pushed to take action and we must spend time and effort in this arena and not waste time with cyclyst clubs ect. All proposed events must be met with strong resistance and petitions. Who wants to ride in an area where you are unwelcome.
Here we go again. Chucky you start the fire, now you come along and make out as you are going to save the day. Maybe try finding solutions, instead of starting fires.
As to your lawyers letter, we also have lawyers and the letter means nothing to us.
Comment on Bruce's comment about the vendetta. If you had read this thread and previous threads,
you would have seen that we have made the effort to get this sorted out. (starting about 3 years ago) Cyclist clubs and CGC do not have the ability and in some cases the leadership to sort this out. A lot of talk and that all.
About the meeting on Wednesday. I see you have taken it upon yourself to post the date and time on the hub. Are you saying it?s an open meeting now, or only with the representatives as per the teak meeting. Are you going to chair the meetings now?
Cyclists are like taxi drivers. They go through red robots, cut other road users off and when an incident happens, it is everybody else?s fault and now they are been victimised and the community has a vendetta against taxi drivers and blah blah blah , it goes on. And then the other tactic, they will threaten, insult and plan mass action. (you guys post names on the thread, without giving the full story.)
Bottom line is you come out here looking for trouble, get residents backs up, and when you get it, then its crocodile tears.
You and your fellow riders on Thursday are in leadership positions and you preach safety and tell everyone how you are trying to get things done. Maybe start with yourselves, that will be a good start.
Ps Chucky , what happened with the blockade, or was that all in your head.. Still waiting for your sources.
Comment on Buckstopper post
Point 2, they were in the middle of the road, they admit it. The road also has no shoulder.
Point 3, they were not going downhill. Where the incident took place is a slight uphill all the way.
Point 4. It was made clear by metro that cyclists cannot ride 2 abreast, only on dedicated cycle lanes
Point 6. Did you see a previous thread where photo?s were taken. Club rides are a problem
Point 8 ? If you were at the teak meeting, you would realize it is not a few residents and you would also have seen the mood. Maybe also check out local newspaper articles.
Point 12 ? As residents we are strongly pushing for this at high levels.
Mark, the road has no shoulder and the metro made it clear at the Teak meeting that cyclysts can NOT ride abreast on ANY road, ONLY WHERE THERE IS A CYCLE LANE.
So what you are saying is that X must endanger his life and his kids life by driving on the wrong side of the road on a blind rise.
One more thing Mark and all other cyclysts who had problems here. We insist you report these incidents to the Muldersdrift policestation,Krugersdorp Police station and Mogale metro. This will force the authorities to get involved and start charging road users who break the law, both sides.
There are a lot of misconceptions and distortion of the facts here.
The incident this morning
Mark called me and told me what happened ? basically Mark and a fellow cyclist were riding and X rode by at high speed (80km/h) and missed them by centimetres.
I called X and his side of the story is different. He was taking his kids to school and 3 cyclists (not 2) were riding in the middle of the road approaching a blind rise. (Other residents report 2 cyclist groups riding in the middle of the road this morning at about that time)
So Mark, here are a few general questions about your post.
Were you riding 3 abreast on a blind rise?
Quote ?I have now had enough of the cradle residents putting my (our ) lives at risks.? ? How many other incidents have you had personally in the cradle?
Quote ?Most of you also know that I have been at the fore front with the cradle residents trying to sort this ongoing problem out, there are no quick easy solutions which it seems like the residents want.?
Quote ?Im so sick and tired of the cradle residents thinking they own this stretch of road, my team mates and i are most probally the most safty conscience riders around?
Really, then why are you riding 3 abreast on a road that has no shoulder, on a blind rise at time, which is probably the most busiest at this time of day. The residents have exactly the same point of view about cyclists.
Quote ?Further more the residents are planning a road blocade this weekend to prevent us from using a public road specifically designed for cyclists so pitch up in your numbers , but beware threats have been made?
My comments on the above are:
A meeting was held at Teak place between the residents and cyclist representatives. The meeting was heated and closed off with representatives been chosen to take the matter further and come up with a plan. This meeting also ended with an appeal not to post on the hub, as this would only fuel the situation. If Mark had attended the meeting he would off known this.
I was voted to represent the residents.
I then initiated the first meeting. AM could not make it and said Mark would attend on his behalf.
The only people who bothered to pitch for the meeting were myself, Metro and Ian Jones. Mark did not attend , did not offer any apology and simply did not pitch. If he couldn?t make the meeting, why didn?t he call and ask how the meeting went and what was discussed. If i was in the forefront of trying to sort the problem out, that?s what i would of done.
We had the meeting anyway ,Metro made a few good suggestions and it was decided that nothing was going to happen in December and we would then get going in January. We all left the meeting positive that things could be sorted out
Last week I again contacted the representatives to get a meeting and move forward. A meeting date and venue was agreed. Giovanni (didn?t attend first meeting) then came into the picture and said he felt the meeting should NOT go ahead as the main issue was about the road surface and he would be contacting the cradle authority about the state of the roads. I strongly disagreed and wanted the meeting to go ahead, as there were a lot of other issues to be discussed and the road surface problem would not be sorted out with in at least 6 months if ever. Giovanni was adamant that there was no case for a meeting and when i emailed specific questions all i got was vague answers and a lot of spin
A few points.
I have initiated both the meetings and not once has any other representative pushed to get things sorted out.
I do not believe the CGC is serious about sorting the problem out and I believe it has to be escalated to CSA. Remember I had a meeting with CGC about 3 years ago and a lot of promises were made, but that?s all it was. All talk.
Mark is very quick to put people names on the web site without telling the whole story. He did it with Ken as well. The story about the blockade and threats is a lot of rubbish and is all in his head. All he is doing is trying to inflame the situation. I challenge him to give his sources.
Just got back and heres 2 things to think about
Cradle Resident. I invite you to come and join us for a training ride on the weekend. It takes guts' date=' dedication and sweat to be on the bike. Let see how you fair. Until you get on a bike and pedal you will never understand it. Yes, there are cyclists on the roads....SO WHAT! Sleep in on Saturday and Sunday and by 09:00 we almost all gone.
Do you drive a white VW minibus? My father in-law was harassed by someone in a VW minibus vehicle with a video camera. He is 60 years old, and if it was you, you chose the wrong man. We do not go out on our bikes to harass motorists. We have equal right to the road and when someone endangers our lives then there is a reaction. If it was you, you jumped straight back in your car when the old man wanted to give you a hiding. In the future let's avoid this happening again.
Don't drive around setting up cyclists, hooting behind them and making problems. You are doing this premeditated and its wrong. Wouldn't our cities be better off with plenty cyclists on the roads? A common respect between bikes and cars. In Europe many people ride about on their bikes, it a lifestyle for them. Our mindset in South Africa is to live in this golden cage, behind our electric fences and security gates. We have everything but we don't get to enjoy it, especially been able to walk from to A to B, or to get on a bike. Cycling is one of those enjoyments.
We are never going to go away. My taxes paid for that road I ride on and so did the other cyclists. So deal with it constructively. In South Africa and in life you will always have frustrations but that's life.[/quote']-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------Things get so twisted here, and if you took the time to read the posts you would not make such stupid comments, but then again there are many hubbers here who have this thing called commen sense, so to those few who make the dumb remarks, dont expect a responseA few thingsThis problem did not start yesterday. I had a meeting with Giovani about 2 years ago and he agreed there were problems and they would try reslove them. I think i even sent an email to Ian JonesI have never said we want a petition banning cyclists.I have never advocated violence , but some other resdents have.I am a social cyclist ,I ride a mountain bike and i ride 3 times a week at about 6amI and the residents are looking for a solutionIf you think i am one person complaining, read the local newspaper that did an article about a year ago, also ask any and i mean any resident about the way the feel.I didnt pick the weekend before the 94.7 on purpose, i didnt even know it was on this weekend. If you read the first post you would see that a resident called me saying he COULD NOT TAKE the cyclyst issue any more and asked me to go and see what is happening.The 94.7 has nothing to do with the issue , except that there were more cyclysts than usual on the road. Think about it. If a cyclyst is going to ride in the middle of the road before the 94.7, then thats the way he rides normally.And to respond to the above postI drive a few cars and one of them is a Vito crew cabIf your father in law has his picture in this forum , then yes it was me and if you read the forum, you would not have asked such a stupid questionAs to the hooting, i didnt hoot once on the whole route and yes it was so tempting , but your father in law (if it was him) was riding in the middle of the road and i hooted once to move over and then again to move over which he didnt do. I then managed to get a gap to pass him and he shouted i should pull over, which i did. So he says i jumped in my car becauce i thought i was going to get a hiding. Maybe ask him again. If you want i can show u the video, but hey if thats what you like to think, then thats ok.As to the "i chose the wrong man" part. Not sure what you mean, maybe you can elaborate.As to your enjoyment of cycling. Please dont make your enjoyment my pain.The taxes thing is so old. Um, do you pay license taxes on your bike,does your bike have a registration number. Yes and i know your taxes paid for the road blah blah blah. So now that your taxes are paid up, you can now behave badly.All i can say is thank God there are a lot of hubbers here who are looking for a solution, have common sense, promote respect ect ect.Tell you what cradle cyclist. I need to send an email out to the community on what is going on.What do you want me to put in the email.Cyclists are here to stay , we must get used to and accept our weekends getting messed up, becauce of arrogant cyclists. We are not allowed out before 10am becauce cyclists want to ride in the road.Let me know.
How did u do it. Im struggling big timeNo wonder you are so aggitated with the cyclists in the area. He He ' date=' don't take me seriously. Just could not resist.
PM me if you would like advice on what I did to quit. It really is all in the mind.[/quote']Lol I cant win
How did u do it. Im struggling big time
Andrew, Giovani, Ian and Mark are the only guys that are looking at sorting the issues out and are coming up with ideas. There is no problem with the general cyclists in the cradle (I ride during the week), its the few that make our life hard and come across three or four of these groups on a drive and your day is messed up.
This is for the Coenieeees and Mavrics of this world.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VEDVkDX6x8I wish that people would chill out and stop complaining about these little things in life...think about it...there are much more important things to complain about ie.
Eskom' date=' and the increases they want
Tax, and the proposed increase
National medical program
etc
....wrt to urinating...chill man...I have seen LOTS of people doing it, is is it because he is a cyclist?
Next to Taxi ranks, mere meters away from toilets, and you then we all accept it?
What about the people "stealing electricity" do you also actively hunt them down with a camera?
Come on, just chill out, like someone said after the 94.7 things will calm down again...same in Cape Town, just before the Argus things are crasy...in December you can not drive/park even walk in small town like George, Mosselbay, Jeffries...and the residents chill out and accept it for that time
Now everyone is getting their nickers in a knot over something that is tempory....??
Take a chill pill Cradelresident...there are lots of things that iritate many people and they take in their stride....
Just accept it like you accept many other things, Taxis, people throwing rubbish out of their cars, people driving drunk....
If you want to make the world a better place I suggest you all start with things that really matter...
Drunk Drivers(proven to be a KILLER), Murders, homeless(they urinate in public), jobless beggers, drunks....etc
nuff said, my 1 cent
[/quote']I would normally not bother replying to a post like this, but this must be the most brain dead comment i have ever seen. I nominate that you become a spokesman for cyclists.So Coennnnieeee well done, just when you thought it couldnt get more ridiculous.
Why you are not welcome in the cradle
in The Bike Room
Posted
This is where it all started, so it might as well end here. Here is a letter that has been sent to all residents of the cradle
--------------------------------------------------
To all Cradle residents
Late last year the cycling issue was out of hand and there were a number of incidents. A meeting was held at Teak place between a number of players mainly been residents and cyclist representatives.
This meeting was heated and the resolution was that I would represent the residents and work together with CGC , representative cyclist clubs and Metro to find a win win solution.
A few meetings took place, but the initiate was always from my side and at one stage Giovanni indicated that the meetings were a waste of time ,and the problem was with the road and if this was sorted out there would be no problems.
Cut a long story short. Metro promised to take a serious stand against cyclist’s who ride in the middle of the road, by ways of fines ect. This was backed by everyone who attended the meeting at Kloofzicht. (Ian jones can supply names)
A lawyers letter was also addressed to Cradle residents from a cyclyst. (on the hub)
To date nothing has happened and the situation is getting out of control and I have received many calls from resident’s wanting to know what’s going on.
When I took this on, there were many residents who said this was a waste of time and they had other ways of dealing with the problem. I still went ahead thinking that all the parties were serious.
The only parties I believe were serious were Ian Jones and Andrew Mclean.
Giovanni was never committed (in my opinion) and club 100 never attended any meetings.
I have sent letters to the following parties
· Mogale Metro
· CGC (Central Gauteng Cycling)
· Cradle management authority.
Mogale Metro - has not bothered to respond and from this we can take that they are not interested.
CGC – Giovanni passed this on to Joaquin from Valverde, and Joaquin’s response was that CGC had not disciplined any clubs and had no authority to do so. To quote from CGC website ‘CGC members are expected to adhere to the CGC code of conduct. Failure to do so may result in disciplinary action being taken against the cyclist as well as the club and could include expulsion from the club” Apart from this Joaquin also contradicts himself about cyclist’s riding in the road. Joaquin’s main argument is that no one can discipline cyclists, and only the police can do this, and till that happens, residents must just live with it.
Cradle Management Authority
Events that take place in the cradle need approval from COH WHS (Cradle Management Authority) The MA at this time has no guideline’s for any events and this is not due anytime soon. In other words there is no management happening and it is a free for all.
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The conclusion is I am not going to carry on with this as it is a waste of time. I am happy to meet with residents to give them a more detailed report and other residents can take it from here.
What I can say is that if cyclists are going to come out here looking for trouble, please don’t complain when you get it right back.
I will post this letter on the hub.