Brighter-Lights

Speedi15, Two Revelation-4's are 8 LED's at 1000mA each.... Just short of 2000 lumens. I've driven them at 1200mA to achieve over 1000 lumens per light but past 1000mA, more heat is generated than extra light, so not worth it. The 2 lights in parrallel on the 300g Lipo pulled 3 Amps! Not much by Lipo standards, but nice to be able to run almost 2000 lumens for over an hour on a 300g battery! I just weighed the light and motion HID Ultra - 670g with helmet mount and li-ion pack. Revelation-3 is 710g, but much brighter and longer burning... pic's later...

Julle is almal welkom... dis nou 8:47 en ek vrek van die koue en ek sit hier met 'n light en motion HID wat afgenem moet word maar die maan is nog uit. So ek besluit of ek na middernag eers gaan ry of 4:00 more oggend... dis net so koud... en die stuk woud is 25km op die fiets in die berg in... ... rowwe nag wat voorle...

Ok... Speedi15 apologized a few pages ago and I accepted it... Now we can talk more lights! I had two Revelation-4's on the bar Thursday cause I wasn't gonna race, just wanted to have a nice ride and show the lights... but on my way to PE my plan changed... I wanted revenge for the previous week... 1st Three riders = Brighter-Lights systems... See here... http://www.fattracks.co.za/Race_Results/Night%20Series%20Results%2008%200508.xls BTW... don't try to work out their timing logic... they have very low IQ's....

I think Mountain Blast would taste better...

Marius, All Hid's I'vee seen appear to be very blue in comparison with the LED's I use now. Most HID's are 6000K to 8000K. 8000 is very blue already. I get LED's from 2 color bin groups. The one is 5700K to 6350K , the other is 6350K to 7000K. 7000K is too cold for me... it's not blue yet, but icey white... I like the vanilla color of the 5700K to 6350K more. Jo

Marius, Articles appear to be outdated. LED efficiency has passed HID almost a year ago already. They are still talking about 1watt and 3watt LED's, which doesn't mean anything anyway, but we know it's Luxeon I's... The best LED's now, put out 100 lumens per watt. So if I take a revelation-3 and drive 9 led's at 350ma, instead of 3 LED's at 1000mA, I will get 990 lumens from 12.2watt. "both can be run at constant voltage (= constant efficiency) by using regulator circuits, but I don't know of any regulated lights. There are a few LED lights with regulators. " They're talking about old type LED's. All these current LED's require regulators. And Constant current, not Constant voltage like the article said. "This also means LEDs can have multiple brightness settings, and be equally efficient in all settings." Latest High Power LED's we see in lights now are much more efficient at lower current. Say we take low beam as 100% for current and 100% Light output, then at 300% current (high beam) , You'll only see about 220% light output. ZorgusPrime: If you can measure the input and output voltage and current, you don't need a light meter. Because by referring to the datasheet you could quite accurately plot the lumen output... IF you are 100% sure of the bin the LED's came from. You don't get Lipo's of up to 200w/KG yet... that one on the WIKI site is a sample being tested by NASA...it will be a while before your hobby shop have them... Remember, I've build a few lights and I've bought a few batteries. The best Lipo's readily available at the moment are all around 140 watt/h per kg... (Tested many different types before I settled with a supplier) The statement was that you build a better performing light than my Revelation-1 at less the weight... Have you actually built it or is it on paper still? I've learned that you can't go by theory with these instruments.

Thanx for the link, Will post a Light and Motion HID vs my LED's tomorrow. Jo

Marius, You asked about the Firestorm hid but I replied with a 55w halogen vs Revelation-4 pic, because it's the only comparison pic I have now, and because MTBR compares the Firestorm HID to a 40w halogen... Till later

It's a 55watt H3 halogen not a HID (same bulb as in all car spotlights) I'm only taking pics of the Light and Motion HID tonight. And after that I'll upload the new website with all the full size pics and new goodies.

Thanks Rogan, No hard feelings, I understand your situation. Good luck with your project! Johannes

I just checked the MTBR Review but they only state about the same as a 40w halogen.... This pic is of the Revelation-3 wide beam, against a 35w halogen wide beam. This pic, is of the Revelation-4 vs 55w Halogen H3 car spotlight. This is for Speedi15

Hi Marius, I don't know. But I'll give you an idea soon. I've been very conservative with lumen quotes etc etc but since last week I know I'm onto something but the weather didn't allow me to go out yet. I've seen some Light and Motion HID last Thurasday and I was surprised at how blue and 'flou' it was... When I switched on the Revelation-4 the Light and Motion HID disappeared. So a very nice friend of mine agreed to lend me her top of the range Light-and-Motion HID tonight! So although not Niterider, light and motion will be a good comparison... off to the jungle tonight! With 5 lights in my bag!! ) Revelation-4 Revelation-3 spot Revelation-3 medium + wide Revelation-3 with Seoul P4 LED's Light and Motion Li-ion Ultra HID To answer your question... Light and motion quote 680 lumens, I quote 735, But my 980 lumen Revelation-4 just made the light and motion disappear completely... so tonight will show!

I would never have chirped in here if it wasn't for this statement:

If you can't measure the output current, how can you do any calculation? You need the output current for every calculation in this case. Measuring the volts on the LED won't help you with anything because every LED has a different forward voltage... some are 3.6v at 1000mA and others of the same manufacturer are 4.1v at 1000mA. I just published my figures because if anyone really want to compete they'll post their measurements... because I know the figures I posted can't be improved.. unless you use a heavier battery... remember... that system was quoted to be even lighter than mine... You'll see that running 1 led from a high voltage, the circuit is more efficient and that the low current on the battery makes the battery more efficient. Running 2 LED's in series off 7.4 volt, you'll have linear dimming before the battery pack's empty voltage (even at 350ma) Running 2 LED's in parrallel off 7.4v, you will have higher current drawn and less efficient battery. I run 790mA on the LED, so devide that by 2 = 395mA each for 2 led's. Cree Q5's latest batches are all about 3.45v at 395mA and 125 lumens. So 2 will be 250 Lumens at 395mA with a needed voltage of 3.45v+3.45v = 6.9v nominal for the LED's + at least 0.5v for the drop over the driver circuit = 7.4v So 2 led's at even a low current of 395mA will only be in regulation until the battery pack reach 7.4v - then linear dimming wil start. 7.4v lipo is 8.4v full and 6.6v empty. Brighter-Lights2008-06-10 04:50:46

Speedi15, There are 8 different brightness XR-E Cree's at the moment... (ranging from 60 to 120 lumens) so you have to know the bin. If the manufacturer didn't specify it, it's probably a low bin group... If you're serious about selling your light at some time, I suggest you learn the formulas so long... it's very basic grade 10 science... gives you peace of mind to know how bright your light really is and how much electrical power it uses. And it's interesting! P (watts - unit of electrical power) = V(volts) x I (current) It's very simple... you take a multimeter and connect it in series with the led and measure the current. Then you take the current to the datasheet and see how many lumens that bin LED gives at that current. You could also measure the current drawn from the battery and devide the battery's capacity by it to roughly get an indication of burn time - remember that the battery's capacity changes drastically when higher current is drawn with Alkaline cells. Good luck! For others still comparing their lights to the Revelation-1, Input: 12.55v - 290mA (battery level monitor + 10mA) Output: 3.61v - 780mA At end of battery's cycle.. Input: 10.0v - 330mA Output: 3.61v - 780mA This setup with the battery monitor incl. gives exactly 11hr30 mins on a 11.1v 4000mAh lipo before the low battery warning comes on. So I can't see how a same weight lipo gives the same runtime with 30% more output... Brighter-Lights2008-06-07 16:20:40

Revelation-1 does come with a balance charger and power supply for it... + the light have a 1 led, 4-mode battery level indicator... (blue, blue flash, red, red flash) .... try adding that to any normal driver and see what it costs you! If using the same weight Lipo's and runtime is the same, then it's impossible for one to have almost double the lumens... even when using 2 at lower current... calculate the wattage.... VxI=W I'm already tapping the lipo for max performance. So even when adding another LED and running both at lower current, the total wattage is gonna be higher than the one only... And unlike nimh, same weight lipo's have very similar capacities. For 2 led's to give 320 lumens you gonna need more current than 1 led and 220 lumens, so if the system is the same weight, it means one lipo have to be at least a third more capacity, but not at that weight. What lipo are you using? When draining my battery on e-station the graph shows 4250mah at 11.1v Better photo Speedi15, But still over exposed when comparing your settings with the MTBR shootout and mine. 4 Seconds and F4.0 at ISO 100 give very accurate results. MTBR used ISO 100, F4.0, 6 seconds.

I think the issue here is that one week a guy pretends to buy a light from me and meet up to look at my lights... 3 days later he had a prototype ready and compares it to my light - in my mind it means he had the prototype ready before he met me to see how I do it. Forgive me if I'm wrong. The fact is, I already sent him an email with all the calculations and facts a few days ago. Anyone can do what he likes to, but please get the facts right before comparing it to a Brighter-Lights system. It's misleading. I've been doing this a while now and no one can tell me anything about the latest LED technology and available driving circuits because I've tested these led's and others with at least 14 different driver options under various circumstances. I might sound arrogant but I'll score 100% in this exam. I know the manufacturers and I'm up to date with their news flashes. Good luck with your DIY projects! Innovation makes the world go forward and at 15 it's a good starting point! I opened my dad's first ever laptop when I was 12 in 1991...imagine his response when he got home... eina! JG Brighter-Lights2008-06-06 09:27:51

Ok... I've been watching this thread but have to jump onto the wagon now... What proof do you have that your flashlight's LED gives 176 lumens? You just mention XR-E Cree. Most of these flashlight companies lie about their light output. Did you know that you get XR-E's that only put out 60 lumens at 350mA and XR-E's that put out 120 lumens at 350mA? My experience is that if they do not specify the bin group of the LED' date=' that it's a generic Cree XR or low bin XR-E's. So before you tell us at what current the LED is driven, I'll see the output claim as guessing. I'll tell you why... One D cell from Duracell is rated 15Ah... and 1.5v . But did you know that the Duracell D cell's capacity is only 4Ah when running it at 1A current? So to get 180 lumens like your claim from even the highest bin XR-E's, you need to drive the LED at 800mA to 1000mA. Did you know that the LED will need a voltage of 3.6v to 4v at 800mA to 1000mA and that 3x D cells gives you 4.5v when full, but only 3.0v when empty? This means that halfway through the life of your battery pack, the voltage will be too low and current will drop = linear dimming of the LED = less lumen output. We could also do it like this... let's calculate your battery's capacity at the higher current you will be drawing: 4(4000mA capacity)x1.5vx3 = 18 watt's of power in the batteries at that current. To achieve 176 or 180 lumens from even the highest output Cree's you will need 800 to 1000mA current. So lets be way conservative and take you have the latest Q5 bin at 800mA. This is then 0.8 x 3.7v (led forward voltage) = 2.96 watts for the led and probably over 3.4 watts when adding the driver's 80 to 90% efficiency. But lets be even more conservative and say the driver has 100% efficiency. So your battery is 18W and you led is 3W = 6 hours maximum. (But we know halfway through the battery life the voltage will be too low and current will drop = longer runtime at the lower current) Your claim of running 10 hours already tells me that the led is not driven at even 800mA so the lumen output is just impossible. = FALSE The Revelation-1's battery pack is not only lighter than 3x D cells, but it has 3 times the amount of power contained in it. Lightweight Super compact, lightweight, high tech. Complicated charger circuit... To compare the Brighter-Lights Revelation-1 to a torch or any other 1-LED system is like comparing a duck to an eagle. On www.brighter-lights.com there's a couple of pages you could read to get educated about LED's, the latest tech. batteries and marketing lies. Brighter-Lights2008-06-06 07:02:33

priceless photo!

I don't think any commercial, or other diy project comes close to Brighter-Lights when comparing weight, output, burn time and price. Can I get some specs of the bliksem lights?

The Revelation-4 is visble on gravel in bright sunlight... 1m away from gravel surface. The Revelation-3 is also visable in bright sunlight but not as obvious as the Revelation-4. Revelation-4 gives excellent light at 80m still. The revelation-3 is still the most efficient light and best overall performance (burn time, weight, light) great light at 50m to 60m. Brighter-Lights2008-06-04 07:01:13

I've been thinking about that for a long time and I tried several 2 LED lights but I've never been happy with the housings etc. For now the Revelation-1 is fixed at 1 led... Regards Jo I'll post updates here

I've modified a sigma 5W before but the problem is that tit's plastic and you have poor heat dissapation so you need to drive the led's at 350mA... To drive it anywhere near 800 to 1000 mA, you need aluminium housing.

The problem with series is in order to run 4x chips at 750mA, you'll need 14.8v to 15.2v for the LED's alone to be in regulation + 1 or 2v for the drop from the driver, depending on the driver you're gonna use... so minimum voltage of 16+v's if you don't want the light to dim towards the end of the battery's cycle... 4 cell's empty voltage is around 13.5 to 13.8v so by that time, it will be, say 14v (battery empty) - 1v (driver) = 13v / 4 = 3.25v for each LED = +- 350mA depending on LED's vF.