Is The Amateur Rider Spending Too Much Time In The Saddle?

[JulesV]

Tristan, where are you in the Northern Hemisphere?? I am immigrating to The West Midlands UK in August. Been looking around the British Cycling Website for Racing info and, man... what a confusing site

 

Where abouts?? I used to live in a town called Ilkeston just outside Nottingham and the guys from a LBS used to do crits in the week and long rides over the weekend. Shop's easy to find - near the bottom of town, owner's name is Tony Argent - as luck would have it, I've remembered all those details but not the shop's name hehe

[I-FELT-the-FORCE]

Where abouts?? I used to live in a town called Ilkeston just outside Nottingham and the guys from a LBS used to do crits in the week and long rides over the weekend. Shop's easy to find - near the bottom of town, owner's name is Tony Argent - as luck would have it, I've remembered all those details but not the shop's name hehe

 

 

Yip, looking aroudn the Nottingham area > look about as good a place as any and pretty close to other major centres for work . Just looking forward to a bit of a change in lifetyle really.

How would you rate Nottingham?

[JulesV]

Yip, looking aroudn the Nottingham area > look about as good a place as any and pretty close to other major centres for work . Just looking forward to a bit of a change in lifetyle really.

How would you rate Nottingham?

 

Ah cool, I liked it around that area. Accommodation and was cheaper than London, access to canal paths to cycle/run along, lots of female students who are fascinated by Souf African accents hehe - pretty decent area to live in general.

[Andrew_ew]

This is a newsletter from Mark Carroll (level 2 Cycling Coach from cadence cycling (awesome programme -http://www.cadencecycling.co.za)- food for thought.

 

"Racing the Cape Epic, Sani2C, Joburg2C on 6 Hours Per Week. Is it possible? YES. Open your mind to a new ideas - and read the attached science...

The Science...

 

A great body of published research provides the working, non-professional cyclist with directions to considerably enhance their endurance with a minimal time commitment. Avoid being stuck in a big-volume mindset, read the reports, they are compelling!

 

This newsletter was inspired by Dr. Jeroen Swart, who's average training week for the 6 months leading up to the Cape Epic was 5.4 hours. NOTE: He didn't do 4 months big volume and then switch to high intensity - it was 6 months of 5.4 hours on average. Further, he pulled off a respectable 57th place. Over 8-days, ride time was 46hours, which was 8 times more volume than his typical training week.

 

Just for mental preparation, one week out of the 6 months consisted of 13 hours whilst 2 weeks had 9 hours - which means some weeks were also less than the 5.4 average.

 

I have spoken about this with many riders and the same two reponses repeat themselves:

'Nonsense!'

'He's a natural.'

This response is understandable due to the fixed paradigm that ultra endurance races need to be tackled with ultra endurance training.

 

SO, AS A WORKING, NON-PROFESSIONAL CYCLIST, HOW DO YOU DO IT?

 

By tricking the body into creating the same endurance adaptations in 1 hour of high intensity interval training that occurs with 4 hours of endurance training.

 

Note 1:

Most riders are suffering after just 20 minutes at 105% of their Functional Threshold Power. It is therefore reasonable to state that 5 - 7 hour training rides are done at a low-moderate intensity, regardless of how hard the rider perceives their effort is.

 

Note 2:

Recovery. Training was separated by at least 1 day recovery. To maintain quality intervals, you need to be fresh, hydrated and nourished. Poor sleep, poor nutrition, fatigue from previous exercise sessions, etc... will inhibit the ability to complete intervals effectively and stimulate the results.

 

Mark Carroll

Level 2 Cycling Coach

 

The first article is by Jeroen Swart, published in Sports Medicine Update. "...the continued use of low to moderate intensity volume based training may not be an optimal training strategy during preparation for ultraendurance racing."

Training for ultra endurance events:

 

http://www.cadencecycling.co.za/emails/files/jeroensmu.pdf

 

This research from Canada using 30 second intervals compared 2 groups who performed 6 training sessions over 2 weeks. Total work volume over 2 weeks compared 13 minutes intense intervals versus 10 hours endurance training. "...our results suggest that intense interval training is indeed a time-efficient strategy to induce rapid muscle and performance adaptations comparable to traditional endurance training."

Short-term sprint interval versus traditional endurance training.

 

http://www.cadencecycling.co.za/emails/files/30sSprintvsEndurance.pdf

 

This second research from Canada used 1 minute intervals with subjects performing 8 - 12 repeats of 1 minute high intensity intevals. "High-intensity interval training (HIT) induces skeletal muscle metabolic and performance adaptations that resemble traditional endurance training."

...low-volume high-intensity interval training induces mitochondrial biogenesis in human skeletal muscle:

 

http://www.cadencecycling.co.za/emails/files/mitochondrial.pdf

 

This research from Norway compared 4 minute high intensity intervals to LSD training. "....students that trained at aerobic high intensity (i.e., 90–95% HRmax) increased their VO2max significantly. However, the LSD and the LT groups training at 70 and 85% HRmax did not change their VO2max."

Aerobic High-Intensity Intervals Improve VO2max More Than Moderate Training.

 

http://www.cadencecycling.co.za/emails/files/hegerud.pdf "

[azikara]

Disclaimer: I am a second year racer. Second year with structured training. I am 40 years old and an ex-mid level squash player who turned to cycling after knee arthroscopy. I have an Elite/Semi-Pro level coach. I am learning a TON. Your results may vary

 

OK, lots going on here and all good discussion, debate and experience. But I think we are mixing up a few things and causing a bit of a diversion in the response.

 

So, to try and focus the conversation back to the original poster's question:

 

He wants to do the best that he can with the current constraints of time. Obviously he is not a pro and has other commitments (family, work, other). He's read something that says you don't need to do the traditional stuff to compete reasonably at his level and he's interested in if this is true or not.

 

Please don't bring the "you need base miles" etc argument in here because it DOES NOT APPLY in this situation. Sure, it is tried and tested that if you lay down the base, build up periodization, engage in specificity and fine tune, taper etc. then you can peak once or twice during a year. Great. That takes 12+ hours a week and not what we're trying to accomplish here.It is and antithesis of what he's asking about. That's another topic all together.

 

So moving along:

 

You can get great (relative to your goal) results on HIGHLY FOCUSED, HIGH INTENSITY, LOW VOLUME, training. How? Intervals my friend. From 15-30s highly neuromuscular micro and macro bursts to 3-5 min VO2max to 20 min threshold intervals. ALL of these workouts can be done in 1-1.5 hours and ALL will give you good adaptation. In fact, the 2x20 threshold intervals are well known to maximize workout efficiency (time) vs. the mental challenge of longer intervals (we're not all out there doing 60 min threshold, that is hard, nuts and not the answer we are looking for).

 

Efficiency and Quality

 

Squeeze as much juice out of the lemon as you can. Look at what % of time you are spending screwing around slowing for traffic, lights, stop signs etc while out on your 3 hour base ride. Have a plan for your hour. Jump on your trainer, pop in a DVD and GET IT DONE. Do not MESS around. You have one hour. You need 21 mins of VO2max. Can you do it? Sure you can. When you have a power meter you can set your average power to be shown on hte screen. Need 320W average for your 3 min efforts? Hit the lap button, nail the interval and rest. Then repeat 6 times. Simple. A friend of mine is an ex-US Olympic Speed Skater. I asked her why she doesn't coach. "Simple" she said, "I have ZERO empathy for slackers. This is very straight forward: do your workouts 100% and you'll be a champion". How many of us slack off? I bet there are very few of us who have the discipline for this.

 

So set a definite target for your week adn plan it down to the minute. 2 Vo2max sessions, 2 2x20 threshold sessions, one over-under and a nice long group ride on the weekend with your mates while the missus and kids are sleeping. Perfect (6-8 hours right there). If you do this consistently, the results will come. But this is another area we slack off in. So I set a time every morning and I climb on the trainer. Some days are better than others.

 

How?

 

It's cool in SA that you can be outside more. Terrific. But I like the indoor trainer. I find I get more "Efficiency and Quality" indoors. It's just the way it is. End of story. If you're a pro, you can hang out and drink cappuccinos before you head to the hills with your training partners for 5-7 hours. We can't. We have responsibilities. Shock your body with some High Intensity Interval training (HIT). Get HIT!

 

So, to this point:

 

I've also been thinking am I gonna get a better workout or training session by doing an hr in the gym instead.

 

FORGET the gym. End of story. If you're at the gym instead of on your bike and your main goal is the bike AND reduced hours, then you are completely misaligned. There is more CYCLING-related benefit to be gained from you spending your gym hour on the bike than in the gym. Cycling is NOT A STRENGTH LIMITED SPORT. If you can walk up a flight of stairs then you have more than enough strength to ride a bike. You are trying to maximize your muscular, neurological, nervous and cardio systems here to increase efficiency. Fire those muscle groups more efficiently - generate more power (force x speed). Saddle time does this. Not gym time. When I'm in a full out sprint I am developing over 1,000W with a pedal speed of 1.6 m/s-1 and 670N pedal force (equavalent to 68kg with gravity = 9.81). I happen to weigh, you guessed it, 68kg! I met Chris Horner recently (top ten in the Tour de France) the guy has skinny legs. Perhaps he is in the gym as a pro but you wouldn't say the guy has super strong legs. However, he can fire those guys like no body's business.

 

In sheer desparation I have joined Virgin Active La Lucia and hit the spinning classes every Tues and Thursday... I get there early so that I can warm up before the music starts!

 

Excellent! I do this all the time. I travel a LOT and I don't always take my bike. I go to spin classes but politely decline to do the class. I do my own thing. 2x20 threshold and 7x3 VO2max are excellent to do in spin classes if you have HR because it's easy to tell if you are hitting the right power output via your HR alone. I know my 20 min threshold HR. So just settle in and hit that for 20 mins. Relax for 7-10 and then hit it again. Done!

 

Can it be done?

 

This is a terrific case study and there are many more:

 

This newsletter was inspired by Dr. Jeroen Swart, who's average training week for the 6 months leading up to the Cape Epic was 5.4 hours. NOTE: He didn't do 4 months big volume and then switch to high intensity - it was 6 months of 5.4 hours on average. Further, he pulled off a respectable 57th place. Over 8-days, ride time was 46hours, which was 8 times more volume than his typical training week.

 

But, some of us are naturally gifted (not me) and some have to work a bit longer. I'm adding a bit more volume to my training (about 9 hrs a week) and we shall see how I do at the Argus. I am about 13% stronger over any interval from 5-60 minutes. Should be interesting.

 

This is my current overall stress picture. You can see last year vs. this year and how I've increased the volume. But this is only because I wanted to get more threshold hours in and being on the road away from family I have more control over it.

 

I live in Chicago. Ex-South African and I am currently working in India and Tokyo. So I travel with a Ritchey Breakaway steel roadbike, PowerTap and a Fluid Trainer. It's hard work but I am putting in 30-33 hours a month in my hotel room.

 

I've also attached my Jan and Feb volumes at different zones (AR = Active Recovery, E = Endurance, TE = Tempo, TH = Threshold, VM = VO2max and AC = Anerobic Capacity)

 

I think this is pretty efficient. I've only done two outdoor rides since Jan. One was 6.5 hrs long and was with a new group who were going pretty slow so there are a lot of "bad" hours in there. But otherwise I think this has been decent.

Edited March 3, 2011 by azikara

['Dale]

Or, Is The Amateur Rider Spending Too Much? Probably.

Definitely.

Count me in.

 

I am in the front of this queue.

['Dale]

I have had the same thought recently. I am feeling tired and legs drained when riding (training) and have been wondering if shorter, harder (more intense) rides would do the trick. I have had loads of base Km training in the winter so I know there is definitely a base on which to work on. Must give it a go this evening maybe ..... if it's not too hot that is!

 

Thanks AB - seems your business trips give you lots of time to do research

 

Any advice for training in the last week before 'mass fun ride' next weekend?

Your training base is firmly laid down.

 

Focus on short and intense rides. Up to 60 - 90 minutes max.

To maintain strength and sharpness.

['Dale]

What I'm getting from this thread is:

 

Train SMARTER.

Do not WASTE time.

MIX hard with easy.

 

 

Hmmm...

[Big J-WP]

I must say that the short hard 50km rides in the week on the MTB have done me wonders. When I come to a 120km on the weekend (road bike) it feels like a breeze. 3 x 50km (2hours) in the week and 2 x 100-120km (4hours) on the weekend.

['Dale]

I must say that the short hard 50km rides in the week on the MTB have done me wonders. When I come to a 120km on the weekend (road bike) it feels like a breeze. 3 x 50km (2hours) in the week and 2 x 100-120km (4hours) on the weekend.

Great anecdotal evidence there, Big J-WP!

 

You sound like you're getting your superpowers back since the operation. Cool!

[Big J-WP]

Proof is in the pudding, will see how the Crit goes tomorrow @ canal walk.

['Dale]

azikara,

thanx much for that fantastically detailed post, man!

['Dale]

Proof is in the pudding, will see how the Crit goes tomorrow @ canal walk.

And what did the pudding taste like, Big J-WP?!

[Big J-WP]

And what did the pudding taste like, Big J-WP?!

Must say more like jelly, there's a difference in being fit and being race fit. The guys started to quickly for me but the good thing was on the 1.4km circuit they only caught me @ 38min's so I was riding harder than the rest of the okes for that period. Not to bad for the first time back in 12 years. Now back to the drawing board and I am going to ride more races.

[Caerus]

 

So, to this point:

 

 

 

FORGET the gym. End of story. If you're at the gym instead of on your bike and your main goal is the bike AND reduced hours, then you are completely misaligned. There is more CYCLING-related benefit to be gained from you spending your gym hour on the bike than in the gym. Cycling is NOT A STRENGTH LIMITED SPORT. If you can walk up a flight of stairs then you have more than enough strength to ride a bike. You are trying to maximize your muscular, neurological, nervous and cardio systems here to increase efficiency. Fire those muscle groups more efficiently - generate more power (force x speed). Saddle time does this. Not gym time. When I'm in a full out sprint I am developing over 1,000W with a pedal speed of 1.6 m/s-1 and 670N pedal force (equavalent to 68kg with gravity = 9.81). I happen to weigh, you guessed it, 68kg! I met Chris Horner recently (top ten in the Tour de France) the guy has skinny legs. Perhaps he is in the gym as a pro but you wouldn't say the guy has super strong legs. However, he can fire those guys like no body's business.

 

 

 

 

 

Even if you are doing an all cardio based workout? Like you say there is stop start within that hour of riding on the road, if i know, that for an hr at the gym I can go balls to the wall. Gym for me is to also have fitness for bodyboarding & other activities.

['Dale]

Must say more like jelly, there's a difference in being fit and being race fit. The guys started to quickly for me but the good thing was on the 1.4km circuit they only caught me @ 38min's so I was riding harder than the rest of the okes for that period. Not to bad for the first time back in 12 years. Now back to the drawing board and I am going to ride more races.

Welcome back to racing!