Research at the 2010 Absa Cape Epic

[Woofie]

 

Thanks Woofie' date=' but Dirt Girl is right. Ethical approval is very important when doing research. She was well within her rights to questions it and I take no offence.

 

Compliments of the season to you Warren. I hope your training has been going well mate. Thanks for all your support. I will keep you posted on the study and let you know if there are any other cycling related ones. We can always use quality guys like yourself.

Keep well

[/quote']

 

 

 

 

 

[Woofie]

 

...can I through a spanner in the works and ask if you have approval to advertise here?

 

Dirtgirl' date=' how is this that different from somebody advertising something else on the hub?

Lots of people use the hub as a avenue to make revenue.

 

Ben is not even making money from this. He is still busy studying and I believe that this research is going towards his masters.

 

VO2 test are pretty expensive so to get 4 free ones with doing not that much for them is a big bonus.

 

It is difficult to get people to sign up for testing programs, so lets not shoot him in the foot.

 

Also, just by the way guys - The submaximal tests are really nothing at all.

It really wont affect anyones performance. Maybe it will even do you some good to spin out the legs.

 

 

 

 

[/quote']

 

Woofie...

 

There are lots of things you need to understand when it comes to research. I am not referring to him being allowed to advertise on the hub...but if he has the approval from an Ethics Committee to advertise on say the internet, flyers, posters.... (specifically asking for the hub here)

 

There are lots of procedures required before a study can be conducted say for medicine?sports?science..

 

Getting the necessary approvals from the necessary regulatory bodies are essential to keep volunteers participating in these trials, safe...and to ensure the procedures during these studies are ethical?.and to ensure that the right qualified people are running a study.

 

Specifying your advertising methods is one of those requirements.  

 

At the end of the day?..I'm just looking out for you.

 

Ahhh

Sorry I had the wrong end of the stick there.

 

 

 

[SwissVan]

 

Also' date=' just by the way guys - The submaximal tests are really nothing at all.
It really wont affect anyones performance. Maybe it will even do you some good to spin out the legs.


[/quote']

 

So you "maybe" recommend doing a few minutes at +80% MHR between stages of a multi stage race?

I can just see AC and Co next year keeping all the hotel guests awake at night whilst doing a quick "submaximal" recovery ride on their IDT...

 

It takes some effort to ride at 80% (never mind 90%)  for a few minutes when rested, never mind when everything else (including your interface with the saddle) is tired and tender.

 

Ben: What is the goal of the study, i.e. what are you trying to prove / achieve / discover?

 

 

SwissVan2010-01-06 03:27:46

[bcapostagno]

Hi SwissVan

We are wanting to find relationships between heart rate recovery, heart rate variability and subjective ratings of stress and race performance. If you would like, feel free to email me and I will send you some more information. I understand your concerns regarding the submaximal test. Should the participants struggle with it during the event then we will remove it from the protocol. The last thing we want is to interfere with them in any way during the event.

Thank you for showing interest in the study. If we get enough participants and your are at the event this year, please come round. We could then explain things in a bit more detail too and you could see the testing being done if you would like.

Cheers

[SeaBee]

 

The sleep recordings serve to measure something called heart rate variability' date=' which is the time between each heart beat. This has been used to monitor training adaptations and stress responses in cyclists. 

 

[/quote']

 

Don't want to hijack the thread - but what should I see or look out for should I do such a test myself? HR slowing down more over time during sleep as fitness increase, maybe being upped again when overtrained?

 

Should I take a base eg. when rested (say midweek in a non-training week) and then work from there?

 

[bcapostagno]

Hi SeaBee

No problem at all. Always happy to discuss research. Your heart rate is controlled by two branches of your autonomic nervous system. These two branches are the sympathetic nervous system and the parasympathetic nervous system. Your sympathetic nervous system is stimulated in times of stress. Exercise is a good example of this. Exercise is a stress to the body. When the sympathetic nervous system is stimulated your heart rate increases.

Your parasympathetic nervous system predominates at rest and slows your heart rate. As you become more conditioned your parasympathetic system takes a more active role.

For example: Before training if you are cycling at a speed of 30 km/hr and ur HR is 150 bpm. Then you do a few weeks of training and cycling the same road at 30 km/hr and your HR is 135 bpm. This is because your sympathetic response is not as high. In other words your body is experiencing less stress because it has adapted to the training. Your heart rate recovery will increase too. Meaning if you were cycling for 3 minutes at 90% of ur max HR and you stop and keep still for a minute and your heart rate drops from 180 to 150, then your recovery heart rate is 30 beats. After a few weeks of training your heart rate recovery is 40 beats. This again should indicate adaptation.

 

The same can be seen in sleep recordings. If your average heart rate during sleep is lower then it probably means that you have adapted to your training and is a good sign. It is important not to look at these measurements in isolation. For example if you are having a particularly stressful week at work or during training your heart rate will be higher because your sympathetic tone will be higher.

 

Heart rate variability is a bit more complicated and uses complex programms to do the analysis, but measure sympathetic and parasympathetic tone indirectly.

 

apologies for the essay. I hope this helps

[SwissVan]

Hi Ben,

 

Thanks for your offer and time / patience in replying.

 

Unfortunately i won?t be at the Epic, however time and your patience permitting I would like to ask a question or 3?<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

 

1. In the interest of calculating accurate target HR zones, which method in your opinion is best for calculating target HR zones i.e.

 

            Percentage of your known MHR - > 80% of 187bpm = 150bpm

Or

            Karkavan (sp) method using resting RHR (Resting HR)

            MHR ? RHR = _ x 80% = _ + RHR = 80% of MHR

           

            187 ? 48   = 111 x 80% = 159bpm

 

2. What type of training would you suggest is best to improve recovery (heart rate) from maximal (> 80%) efforts during endurance events.

Assuming the athlete is already well adapted to training.

 

3. Is there on average a specific percentage of MHR heart rate corresponding to the ability to digest fluids, i.e. a HR zone when significant fluids will remain undigested?  

 

note: edited sufficient to significant.

 

 

 

SwissVan2010-01-06 05:40:24

[SeaBee]

Thanks Ben, appreciate the feedback! I don't have the tools, just curious and will have a look at what I see...

 

SwissVan, if I may answer Q1 - they will most likely use the second one, Karvonen, utilising HR Reserve.

 

[bcapostagno]

Hi SwissVan

Thanks for your questions. I will try to answer them as best I can.

1. When we calculate Heart rate training zones we do so using information we get from max tests. These tests allow us to determine metabolic thresholds and this is how we calculate the zones. Using a percentage of maximum HR is probably the next best method. I am not familiar with the Karkavan method.

 

2. Heart rate recovery should improve in response to most training. It is important that you consider where you are in the training cycle. For example during a particularly heavy week or a few days after when you are a bit fatigued, your heart rate recovery may be less. The most improvements are seen following base training, but in well trained individuals some changes can be seen following high intensity training. It is important to note that it is not something that changes quickly. Acute changes are common, but these are more indicators of training status or fatigue.

 

3. Gastric emptying is reduced at higher intensities. We recommend consuming a 8-10% carbohydrate solution at about 500 ml per hour. This takes care of your fluid and carbohydrate (60g/hour) needs. At the higher intensities gastric emptying is slowed which can result in discomfort. I am not aware of a specific percentage of max HR or zone where gastric emptying is most efficient.

 

I hope this helps

 

[SwissVan]

Hi SwissVan

Thanks for your questions. I will try to answer them as best I can.

1. When we calculate Heart rate training zones we do so using information we get from max tests. These tests allow us to determine metabolic thresholds and this is how we calculate the zones. Using a percentage of maximum HR is probably the next best method. I am not familiar with the Karkavan method.

 

2. Heart rate recovery should improve in response to most training. It is important that you consider where you are in the training cycle. For example during a particularly heavy week or a few days after when you are a bit fatigued' date=' your heart rate recovery may be less. The most improvements are seen following base training, but in well trained individuals some changes can be seen following high intensity training. It is important to note that it is not something that changes quickly. Acute changes are common, but these are more indicators of training status or fatigue.

 

3. Gastric emptying is reduced at higher intensities. We recommend consuming a 8-10% carbohydrate solution at about 500 ml per hour. This takes care of your fluid and carbohydrate (60g/hour) needs. At the higher intensities gastric emptying is slowed which can result in discomfort. I am not aware of a specific percentage of max HR or zone where gastric emptying is most efficient.

 

I hope this helps

 

[/quote']

 

Thanks.

Reply to # 1 below.

 

1. Interesting that someone in your position is not familar with this method that takes resting heart rate into account, I take that to indicate that the method is not widely accepted in the scientific community?

I must apologise tho, i spelt the name wrong it is karvonen and not karkavan...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_rate#Karvonen_method

 

The formular results in a significantly higher target HR

 

 

[SeaBee]

Agreed, that is why I replied "on behalf" so easily - that is what Dr Swart told me to use.

[The Doctor]

...can I through a spanner in the works and ask if you have approval to advertise here?

Yaaawn!

 

Mars: We really are getting tired of your questions on ethics and advertising and... Won't you please do me a favour and find something useful to do.

[The Doctor]

Agreed' date=' that is why I replied "on behalf" so easily - that is what Dr Swart told me to use. [/quote']

In the absence of any perforamnce testing, the Karvonen formula will most accurately predict your heart rate zones. However, there is very marked variability between individuals and the formula can therefore be off by as much as 15 to 20bpm.

 

 

[Dirt*girl™]

...can I through a spanner in the works and ask if you have approval to advertise here?

Yaaawn!

 

Mars: We really are getting tired of your questions on ethics and advertising and... Won't you please do me a favour and find something useful to do.

 

a good morning to you too Doc...beam of sunshine you are!

 

...oh, and it's a bit too early to be getting tired of me, I promise you that.

[bcapostagno]

We still have a few open spots, so if anyone is keen to be part of this original research, please let me know.

[bcapostagno]

Hi Everyone. We are still looking for four more riders to take part in this exciting research. please let me know if you are interested.