DaleE

This is not youtube or some blog. For the most part this discussion has been a respectful one with intelligent people sharing experiences, n=1 experiments and ideas. Your echo chamber theory may be correct. Is this a bad thing? Are you suggesting that these ideas should not be discussed just because some people disagree? If you have an opinion... - Express it as clearly as possible. - Loose the sarcasm - Avoid general / vague comments - Share your personal n=1 experiences - be open to challenge ... and people will engage positively. And now, I'm off to ride my bike ... enjoy your afternoon

Isn't n=1 exactly the point of this thread? I don't see anyone here saying you MUST, or HAVE TO eat in a particular way. This is about sharing experiences and finding a better way for each person to manage their own health. If every study in the world says my cholesterol will rise on LCHF, but I test it and it goes down, does that make the studies wrong? or mean that they are 'bad science'? Of course not! But it does mean that I don't fit the same profile as the study group and have had a different response so should find my own way to manage my health. In this case gifs has found something that works for him ... it's a great success story. He is not trying to prove anything scientifically or publish a paper but maybe by sharing ideas and experiences he can help others. To make a sweeping statement like It's the fact that it has severe long term health implications that is the issue. is vague and does not really promote discussion.

If you want info, Amber o'Hearn seems to have an intelligent considered view on the topic. http://www.empiri.ca and there are some clips on youtube of talks she has done. There are also a bunch of podcasts, but too many of them are the radical 'end of the world' type opinion for me. 2ketoDudes featured Carnivore in one of their early episodes iirc. I tried it for about a month; had small beneficial changes in bloods results (lower US-CRP, Trigs, APO's) but my feeling is one month is too short for a proper trial. It's an easy way to eat but I did miss the taste of salads - just the 'crunchiness' or 'mouth feel' of lettuce or cucumber. There was no noticeable change in how I felt or cycling performance. Lost around 3kgs that month but was also doing LOTS of Maffetone style training at the time so cannot claim correlation. As you will realize from other comments posted here you are likely to get shocked looks or pushback from folk who intrinsically believe that meat is bad for you based on reports in the popular press. I tried to find any studies that showed a pure carnivore diet is bad for you and could not. What you will find is lots of studies where either: 1. the 'meat' is predominantly processed polony, sausages, tinned meat, etc, which I believe is bad for you anyway and I don't eat that stuff, and/or 2. the meat is mixed with a diet of 20-30% carbs. We know that the body's reaction to fat and meat is completely different in the presence of carbs so cannot be compared to a pure carnivore or even LCHF diet. As always, do some homework and make up your own mind.

I have a theory for you ... but can't prove it . so please take with a pinch of salt. I suspect that you are not burning fat because you have one of 2 problems: 1. Your fat intake is too high and your body is burning fat but it's getting plenty from diet so not needing to burn the spare tyre. Or more likely ... 2. You are not burning fat because you are exercising at too high an intensity. Your exercise is anaerobic and your body can't burn fat at that intensity. Your body uses fat during aerobic exercise and switches to carbs when anaerobic. Rather try much lower intensity exercise for a week or two and see if that helps. By lower, I mean keep your heart rate just below 180-age. It's a real pain at first, but worth the effort. For more info google MAF or Phil Mafetone. Also check ReR testing.

I'm not quite sure what you are trolling for? There is an immense amount of good information in this thread. The topic is , quite clearly, LCHF. If you'd like to discuss the merits of veganism, please go ahead and start a new thread. You seem to feel strongly about wheat and that's cool, but don't try to ridicule those of us who believe that wheat does not suit us. Many of us here are not simply making a decision based on reading 'anti-wheat websites'; our opinion comes from many years of living with diabetes, personal experimentation and multitudes of blood tests and careful analysis. Metabolism is a hugely complex subject and if you don't understand the role that carbs (wheat included) plays in metabolism, feel free to ask. Lastly, the book Wheat Belly is actually well researched and (I believe) based on some solid science. I cannot comment on the website as I have not read it. Grain Brain is another book you might want to read. If you read them both and decide they are not for you, then that's cool too ... each to their own. But, if you want to troll, please go elsewhere. Regards, Dale

Not normally. I do occasionally have breakfast - maybe once or twice a week, usually as a social thing (weekend breakfast with the family, etc) The more I eat LCHF the longer I tend to go between meals. Sometimes only one meal a day.

Firstly, best of luck with this. The first few weeks are never easy. Having had to reboot myself a few times over the last few years, can I offer the following advice? Macros and measuring and sourcing special foods and all that is ok for a while but I found it unsustainable when 'normal' life stuff like family, work, travelling and training got busy. I found that thinking about food in just two types made more sense: 1. Eat 80-90% (by volume) veggies and anything green. This is the bulk of my diet, so normally salad for lunch (I'm not much of a breakfast person) and either salad or veggies for supper. 2. Eat 10-20% (by volume) Meat, Fish and chicken. Normally a reasonable sized portion for dinner and sometimes with lunch. So, I can hear you shouting ... "what about the fat??" Well, I have found that I don't really need to go looking for fat. I have some olive oil on salads, cook with butter, don't actively avoid fatty meats (bacon, ribeye, etc), have cream in coffee, etc, etc. This gives me enough fat in the diet. I tried bullet proof coffee and fat bombs and all that but just found it unnecessary and a lot of PT. Lastly, as you correctly mentioned your body will burn fat but ONLY when insulin levels are low. We normally measure / express this as being 'in ketosis' because its hard to measure insulin daily. So if you do end up having carbs remember that your fat burning switches off for a period. How quickly and how long it switches off for is dependant on you and your insulin production.

Try to increase the fat naturally. It's not about just eating fat for fat's sake. The idea of fat is that is it: 1. is very satiating, and keeps you feeling full for longer 2. has a MUCH lower insulin response, so you don't convert it to fat on your body. So, olive oil with salads; butter on broccoli; cook with butter; your fatty steak, coconut eggs, fatty fish like mackerel, etc are all good. look for full fat cheeses and yoghurts. You will find that adding a little fat to food dramatically improves the taste. Just be aware that just like not all carbs are bad, not all fat is good. Avoid margarine and seed oils (vegetable oils) & peanut butter. Stick to regular butter, olive oil, coconut oil & lard.

OK, I did warn you to stay away from fasting for the next 2 months .... ... BUT seeing as you asked, we may as well delve into the minefield ... Fasting comes in many different shapes and sizes. The most popular seems to me intermittent fasting. Eat one meal a day, only drink water in between. The idea is to lower your insulin which ultimately results in better fat burn IF you are nicely fat adapted. This may have limited effectivity for long term use as you metabolism may slow. Other options are 36 and 48 hr fasts. With these, some folk take in electrolytes. Alternate is fat fast. eat small amounts of fat (pure fat) in the hopes on staying satiated but low insulin for a couple of days. Did not work for me. Just for giggles I tried a 6 day water only fast ... day 2 was tough, and after that I sort of forgot about food. But socially it's tricky, and you need an understanding family. I generally try to fast for one full 36hr period per week. rest of the week is normal 2 meals a day. The guru in fasting is Dr Jason Fung. He has a couple of podcasts and a book or two out on the subject, well worth a listen/read. Constipation ... normally caused by too much protein or too much dairy - especially yoghurt in my case. Try increasing olive oil intake - a tablespoon daily as 'medicine' helps lube the system.

Morning Stephan, There are many questions in your post and Im sure you have many more. You certainly will have after starting to do some reading about LCHF. BUT, yes you are correct, to loose weight (and generally be healthier, but that is a different topic) cut the carbs as low as you can. Obviously remove all sugar, fruit juice and refined carbs (bread, pasta, etc). in terms of sheer volume I find my diet ends up consisting of mainly veggies, salads, etc with a moderate amount of meat - about 1 hamburger patty sided piece of meat with each meal - and the rest is fat. Fat included the fat in nuts, olive oil, etc, etc. I don't subscribe to the idea of eating extra fat anymore. I won't go looking for fat bombs or bullet proof coffee, etc. Your tastes may vary. Your initial 6kg weight loss is probably mainly water. It may not continue at that rate. Just be patient if it slows down. what to eat on the bike. Here you will get 1000 opinions For training and low heart rate rides, I don't eat for up to 5 hrs - water only. Thereafter nuts. For racing, I use date balls ... and nuts. But bear in mind that I'm an weekend warrior so not winning any races, but aim to finish in the top 25% for most events. I strongly suggest you have a look at the 2 books by taylor and phinney. The art and science of low carb living The art and science of low carb performance They will answer many of your questions in a fairly simple way. After that, try Primal Performance by Sisson if you want to get into endurance sport with low carb. Lastly, 2 words of caution: 1. be patient with your performance on the bike. it may take a SERIOUS knock in the next 4-6 weeks as your body learns to burn fat instead of carbs. this is normal. Take the opportunity to do some lower intensity base training. 2. Fasting is also a great way to loose weight, and is somewhat fashionable right now, but don't even THINK about if for the next 2 months. Let your body convert to burning fat properly and then the fasting will be easier and MUCH more effective.

That's a fairly sweeping generalization and certainly not true for everyone. I know (from months of careful meal planning and daily blood testing of ketones), that protein has a very definite effect on blood ketone levels. Obviously things like exercise, timing of food, fasting also play a role, so it's sometimes hard to isolate cause and effect; but my personal 'limit' is around 120g protein per day before I start to see a drop in levels. You are correct that fat can be burned from reserves, but only in a low insulin state ... and we know that protein spikes insulin in some folk .... and fat burning stops. You do need some protein every day, but it's probably less than you think. The point is that everyone is different and if you can get away with lots of protein, then you are lucky. The general rule for sustained Keto is "Low carb, moderate protein and high fat".

Probably because too much coffee can cause adrenal fatigue which slows weight loss. Sort of the same as the argument for limiting alcohol - it affects some folk worse than others. How much is "too much"? This also cause for debate and lots of different opinions out there.

Easiest is a couple of table spoons of Olive Oil or coconut oil at breakfast, lunch and supper. But 'easiest' may not always be the nicest, so not sustainable. I'd suggest you find a source of fat that you like eating and just include more of that. Butter on veggies, high fat cheeses, salads with olive oil, bullet-proof coffee, etc Be careful if the fat you like is meat based (bacon, biltong, etc) as you often end up eating way too much protein in the pursuit of the fat.

I've not tried the product, but if protein is your concern, why not just eat real food? Biltong, nuts, eggs. All the ingredients in products like these tend to look like a chemistry book ... Im never sure what they all actually do. My rule: If it's not recognisable as food ... It probably isn't.

Last time I checked (Jan) there was no local agent. I ordered direct from UCAN in the states, but be careful .... My parcel took 3 months to arrive, and when it did, customs charged me 22% import duty and 14% VAT. Next time I will get a friend to bring some from UK/USA.

+1 If you prefer videos to reading, go look at the 2 videos on this site http://www.thefatemperor.com/blog/2014/10/11/all-doctors-should-watch-this-at-least-twice-if-not-more Start with the second one, then go back to the first.

For those who have an interest in understanding how cololesterol and lipids work, have a look at the two videos on this site. Both these speakers received mentions at the LCHF conference last week so if the likes of Phinney, Noakes and Westman think their work is good, then it's good enough for me http://www.thefatemperor.com/blog/2014/10/11/all-doctors-should-watch-this-at-least-twice-if-not-more

Forgot to mention, after the event I was not actually hungry. Ate a little of the supper available, but sleep was more important. Woke up in the morning, had regular breakfast and slightly bigger than normal lunch. Very different to my days as a carb burner when I'd eat a horse after just a few hrs on the bike.

I did TransKaroo (240km one day) last year as a real world LCHF test. I had been LCHF for about 3 years at that time, but made sure I was really strict in the 3 month run up to TK - measures ketones daily, etc, etc to make sure i was burning fat and little else. Below is the note I posted shortly thereafter ... For this year the plan is same prep, but will start taking UCAN earlier in the race - if no UCAN, then cashews salted would be my next choice. Bear in mind I'm looking for a good sustained energy release, not to finish first. Higher sustained HR out of aerobic levels needs higher carb intake (no proof, just my feeling after RER testing and experience). I did TransKaroo over the weekend, and the plan was always to ride within my aerobic level (HR<135bpm) and ride on water alone. I've been following Maffetone's regimen for a while wanted to test how well my body has adapted to using fat for energy at this pace. So, all was good to the 180km mark (9hrs) - water only, no hunger, no cramps, feeling good .... then there is a 10km climb at that point and half way up my wheels came off spectacularly .... not a slow bonk, more like hitting the wall - had to sit down! My guess is that glycogen stores were now depleted and HR was out of aerobic level, so also no ability to burn fat.Anyway, I pulled out my ucan, mixed some and drank it .... problem is it took at least 30min before I started to feel the effects and energy started to return. Had another ucan 45min after the first then water only to the end (around another 3,5hrs). So, if you need a quick boost then ucan won't do it for you ... you do need to plan intake a lot more carefully than you would with a regular gel/gu. Good side to this story is that after the ucan had kicked in, I felt much better and finished feeling good.

Just to add to the above ... A big source of disappointment for me over the last few months is how many folk (and the media) have focussed solely on the weight loss side of LCHF. The real power in LCHF is around the health benefits - weight loss is a side effect. I'm certainly not suggesting that weight is not important, but it really is a secondary effect of blood sugar control, better lipid profiles, trigs, etc. "Calories in , calories out' needs to be considered in term of the type and timing of those calories. In other words, the same type of calorie taken at different times of the day will have different effects in the body. Example: a banana eaten just before bed will probably be converted to sugar and stored as fat by the body. A banana eaten during the Argus will be burned by the muscles and never get close to fat storage. So, yes, calories do count, but the kind of calorie you are eating should not be ignored. Make Sisson wrote 2 very nice simple posts on this - worth a read if you have 10 minutes http://www.marksdailyapple.com/9-more-calorie-myths-we-should-all-stop-believing/#axzz3Ost42MUE http://www.marksdailyapple.com/7-common-calorie-myths-we-should-all-stop-believing/#axzz3Ost42MUE

Shew - that's a real success story! Well done! Can you share a little bit about what you did and ate? And more importantly, what you found worked for you - and what did not? Was the goal only weight loss or did you look at other markers as well?

Personally I don't like them cause they are usually full of sugar (even the lo-gi ones), but more importantly because you are then mixing hydration with nutrition. When I am thirsty, I want water to quench that thirst ... if my bottle has some magic powder in it, then I'm getting nutrition and not hydration. Also what then what used to happen to me is that on a hot ride, you drink more, but the drink has sugar in it, so you get too much sugar and then end up with gut rot ... bonk! Why not find a convenient route of 3-4hrs close to home. Ride it like a race with 32gi and next week ride it like a race again using water and real food. See which works for you.

An interesting perspective - it certainly flies in the face of the studies done by Phinney, et al that showed increased aerobic performance and maintenance of PPO in cyclists. I have not gone to dig up the specific studies he mentions, but I do wonder if the test subjects were fully fat adapted before doing their tests. If not properly adapted, you would expect the kind of results he mentions. That he quotes the 2004 study as low carb (41% of total calories were carbs) shows the author has very little understanding of what low carb is. At 41% calories from carbs, you are not giving the body enough carbs, but at the same time you are preventing fat adaptation, so of course the body runs out of fuel. Perhaps another case of 'everyone is different - you need to find what works for you'.?

Forgot to add ... After a ride, eat when hungry. Eat real food, follow LCHF principles (low carb, high fat, moderate protein). If you are trying to become fat adapted, try to stay away from too much protein in the hour directly after exercise. Coffee with cream, high fat yoghurt, macadamia nuts are all good if you need a snack.

Morning and Welcome If we had a FAQ, this would be the number 1 question ... a little search through the archives will provide many opinions and different strategies for the different kinds of events. For the sake of brevity, the general consensus round here seems to be like this: 1. get properly fat adapted (2-3 weeks) 2. train on water alone. 3. ditch gels and bars, eat real food 4. when racing if you feel the need for food or energy, use some form of real food carbs that you like. banana, cashews, raisins, muffins in the half hour before and during the event ... go search for the detail of glut4 receptors if you want more info on why this is not harmful to your low-carb-fat-adapted state. 5. remember to separate nutrition and hydration - powdered mixes in your bottle are a bad idea.