DaleE

There are a few different views on fuelling for training and racing. The view that seems to work best for most folk here is like this: For low intensity long rides and high intensity short (<2hrs) rides. water is good enough. The logic is that once you are fat adapted then your body will burn fat for fuel at lower intensities. For the high intensity short rides, you are burning glycogen stores but your body has enough to keep you going for 2 hrs, so you don't need to eat anything for fuel. For higher intensity rides like races over 2 hrs, you will effectively run out of glycogen stores, so some form of carb is needed to maintain the intensity. Davetapson did a post a while back on GLUT4 receptors and why these carbs don't spike insulin or get stored as fat - just do a thread search for it. Wether you use a powder, gel or real food is up to you - taste differ. Personally I currently only train on water and use a weak UCAN solution for races over 3 hrs. You will need to experiment to find what works for you.

A couple of posts back Look695 asked about cholesterol testing and LCHF. For those who are looking for more info and prefer to watch rather than read, have a look at Thomas Dayspring's website www.lecturepad.org The concepts and details of cholesterol and lipids are nicely explained without getting too technical. Perhaps start with http://www.lecturepad.org/index.php/cardiovascular/lipids-lipoproteins/979-basic-lipid-a-lipooprotein-biochemistry and then http://www.lecturepad.org/index.php/cardiovascular/biomarkers/1111-the-meaning-of-cholesterol-measurment You will need to register to access the content but it's free and quick to register.

That looks awesome!! I think we are going to have to ask the mods to ban you from this thread Posting pictures like that is simply not acceptable when us city folk have to put up with the supermarket butter!! . . . . . Or you could fedex us a kg or two of that delicious looking stuff and we'll forgive you. :clap:

Yes ... and no The no part is easy. If you subscribe to the (conventional) view that serum cholesterol (the total cholesterol number normally quoted) is a number that means anything, then stay away from LCHF as it's quite possible that this total cholesterol number will go up at least in the short term, your doctor will have a heart attack and promptly advise a statin. The YES part is more complicated. As Leon said, you are going to need to do some reading to fully understand cholesterol, all the different markers, measurements and why it is (or not) important in terms of heart health. I'd suggest Cholesterol Clarity (kindle and iBooks) as a starting point - it deals with cholesterol in detail but is an easy read. To give you the very abbreviated summary .... the cholesterol number that is generally quoted is just a measure of total cholesterol in your blood. It has almost nothing to do with heart disease (CVD) but it used to be the only thing that doctors could measure and so became the standard measurement. Doctors have known for ages that total cholesterol is a very poor predictor for CVD but the test is cheap and the drug companies promote it as they have statins that can make an impact on the result. The real problem with the total cholesterol number is that it tells us nothing about the make up of the cholesterol and (more importantly) the lipids that carry it. Fortunately nowadays we can measure many of the 'ingredients' that make up this total (trigs, particle size, particle counts, etc) but these tests are not widely used yet. By looking at these 'ingredients' we can get a far better view of CVD, but you need a doctor who understands this stuff, and your GP may not. What LCHF can do is improve the 'good' ingredients and reduce the 'bad' ingredients, but your total cholesterol may still go up. So in short; yes, LCHF can improve your risk of CVD but understand that the regular measurements may not show an improvement. Lastly, you may want to consider this ... after a heart attack at age 42 my cardiologist put me on a LCHF diet in order to improve my cholesterol. and 2 years later every blood marker is dramatically improved.

On the subject of recipes, has anyone has success in making pemican? I've tried both duck lard and olive oil, with finely shredded biltong, but both are too liquid at room temperature. Any other ideas? I was hoping to be able to form it into a bar, that could be easily carried as a snack food for hikes, etc.

I think this brings us back to what Noaks, Attia, Ruhl, etc have all been saying for a while now ... no one can tell you what your optimal level of carbs is. If your body is happy on 200g/day, then that's cool. IF not, lower them till you get the right result. I also believe that if a small relaxation of the "standard" once a week or so works for you, then stick with it - that's much better than being rigid for 2 weeks then spectacularly falling off the bus in a 4-5 day carb frenzy! BTDT!

Sounds like a good idea to me. but a request .... can we limit it to recipes you have actually tried? If not, it can become a copy and paste mess of folk just posting links In the meantime, I use these 2 for fairly easy to make stuff: Real Meal Revolution by proud foot, creed, noaks, grier Low Carb Living for Families by Monique Le Roux Forsland

Just to add to what Sniffie said ... I believe it's imperative that you eat when hungry, especially in the first few weeks. This period is all about letting your body adapt, not weight loss ... the weight loss may come as a side effect, but rather focus on eating the right foods for the first month to 6 weeks. IF you don't eat when hungry, you will get hungry, frustrated and eventually go back to pizza and beer. Those hunger signals are critical, it's unlikely that you will be able to ignore them long term, so you must find the LCHF foods that suppress them for you.

Dunno about Tombeej, but htone certainly still on the LCHF path. He has a new job, so working flat out and not much time for forums

Have found the following wrt the "olive seed oil" question. Taken from http://www.tribunein...rum/fitness.htm Olive oil comes in a number of varieties, including extra-virgin, virgin, pure / refined/ light, and pomace. Extra-virgin or the first pressed olive oil is the highest quality of olive oil and accounts for less than 10 per cent of oil in many producing countries. Olives and water are mixed to make a pulp and oil is extracted by a mechanical system. This oil has the highest polyphenol content and corresponds to an acidity level of <0.8 per cent. It usually has a bitter pungent fruity aromatic taste and its colour varies from dark green to dark yellow, depending on the variety of olives. It has a high smoking point. Being one of the most valuable and best that money can buy, extra-virgin oil must conform to the International Olive Oil Council (IOOC) standards. Virgin olive oil, a slightly lower category is based on acidity levels which are <2 per cent. This oil is not bound by strict guidelines but follows the same extraction process. Olive oil (pure / refined) with an acidity of <3 per cent. This oil is obtained by refining virgin olive oils (not olive-pomace oils) that have a high acidity level and/or taste defects which are eliminated after refining. This method of refining is not high heat refining and is done by use of filters and caustic soda. Refined oil is generally tasteless, odourless, and colourless. It is a blend of refined olive oil and extra-virgin olive oil. Pomace or olive seed oil is extracted from the pulp or paste that is left over by using high heat and solvents. It is blended with a little extra-virgin olive oil (as little as 1 per cent), for taste and flavour. With a low level of nutrients and polyphenols, it is inferior, cheaper and has a high smoking point. I still could not find anything in terms of if it is as bad for you as other grain/seed oils, but my guess at this stage is that even if it is low grade, it's still a mono-unsaturated fat as opposed to a poly, so might be ok.

A quick question for the farming guru's here ... Is "olive oil" the same as "olive seed oil"? Reason for asking is that I always look for products in olive oil rather than sunflower or canola oil. So I have found a few sardine in oil products on the market that are all labelled "in Olive oil" ... BUT, if you look in the ingredients list, they all say "vegetable oil (olive seed)". So is it the same? or should olive seed oil be avoided like other seed oils?

Lots of variations .. gooogle "bullet proof coffee". My personal variation is like this: 1 shot espresso 100ml cream 50ml full cream milk 30ml coconut oil 30ml butter (I don't always add the butter) Mix the whole lot together, put in a travel mug (about 350ml volume) and top up with boiling water. It's about 850calories all in, so go easy if weight loss is your goal.

Just on the subject of weight loss, or lack thereof ... Dr Stephen Phinney did a fascinating podcast with Jimmy Moore on his "ask the low carb experts" show. Number 23 in the series, 24 Aug 2012. In it he answers listener's questions on weight stalls and weight loss issues. http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/atlcx-episode-23-long-term-stalls-weight-gain-even-on-a-well-formulated-low-carb-diet-dr-stephen-phinney-2/15282 or get it in iTunes Most interesting for me was his discussion on the whole concept of ketosis and why ketosis alone does not necessarily lead to weight loss, but is rather a change in the body's method of fuelling. It's the same info as in his books, just really simply explained.

Apologies all, just re-read my post above and realised that I made a rather significant error. The line "1. too much protein. around 1g per kg of lean body mass is required per day," should have read " 1,5g per kg of lean body mass". I believe the difference is important and my apologies for the error.

One more comment ... those fat shakes are good, but can sometimes have 1000+ calories in a single cup. Perhaps try a half sized one for a week or so.

This seems to be a fairly common scenario. Without knowing how much you've read, etc ... and not wanting to teach you to suck eggs ... herewith some comments. The 3kg's you lost in the first week are almost certainly glycogen stores and the water that is attached to them. This is very normal. Be aware that if you go back to a high carb regimen, most of this will come back fairly quickly - don't let that freak you out. Some potential reasons for not loosing anything after that are: 1. too much protein. around 1,5g per kg of lean body mass is required per day, even when training hard. More than that and it converts to carb in your body which reduces the body's ability to burn fat. 2. Nuts. these have a HUGE calorific value. 100g Macadamia's = 700 calories! and it's pretty easy so scarf down 200g per day if you're not careful. Also, not all nuts are equal. cashews have lots of carbs, macadamias are best, brazils and pecans are ok. peanuts are not nuts - stay away from them. 3. I am of the opinion that calories DO (unfortunately) count. If you want to loose weight you need to create an energy deficit. The problem is how to do this without getting hungry and that's why the LCHF approach with it's high satiety foods works for many folk. You can still over eat, especially on the protein. If you want to get into the detail, find your basal metabolic rate (http://www.bloodsugar101.com has a good nutritional calculator under the 'diet' tab) to see roughly how much you should be eating. Then calculate how much carb and protein you want to eat and get the balance of the calories from fats. 4. exercise should not be a factor. In fact I find my weight INCREASES when I start exercising after a holiday. This is possibly a shift from fat to muscle or just that exercise makes me hungry, so I eat more ... not really sure.

Reading through Art and Science of Low Carb Performance (chapter 10) last evening, came across these comments and thought of you. "Natural sources of MCT are dairy fats and coconut oil, so you may find your ketones go up more after ingestion of these foods ... about 2 thirds of coconut oil is MCT ... Ingestion of MCT oil will result in significant ketosis even if consumed with carbohydrates although this MCT induced ketone production may not be associated with full benefits associated with carb restricted keto-adaptation" Now, they don't say how much MCT / coconut oil is required, so I guess you would have to experiment but this may explain your ketones in urine.

I always measure blood ketones, not urine, but perhaps the logic will hold for both. From my experience, eating coconut oil results in increased ketone levels about 2-3 hrs later, and they then stay elevated for the rest of the day. Also, ketone levels always rise after exercise. long slow rides make the most difference (60-70% HRmax), but even short sprint or gym sessions at higher intensity have an effect. Either way, I'd not worry too much about it.

A somewhat belated reply .... There are options to get back to your car on the Sunday - just mail the race organisers for details, IIRC Daytrippers are doing this shuttle. Best option is to book a B&B in Ceres and another in Sutherland. The Start is close to Ceres and I'm fairly sure you could leave your car at the start till you pick it up on Sunday . In Sutherland there are B&B's, but start phoning now as spots are limited. Other option is the Sutherland Hotel - very basic, but clean and neat and just round the corner from the finish line. Some general comments .... if you are looking for a Sani-style experience, this is not the race for you. The field is really small and you may end up riding alone for long stretches. It's a mind game - start slow and go slower as the race progresses ... if you feel good in the last 50km then give it horns, not before. Make sure you're self sufficient between water stops - mechanics are few and far between out there. Scenery is awesome in a kind of arid, desert way. Practice your nutrition / hydration strategy on long rides beforehand ... dehydration aint funny. My personal view is you separate hydration and nutrition, so plain water and real food, not energy drinks. Lastly, it's a wonderfully rewarding ride, whether racing or cruising.

Not sure about sweat levels, but have noticed that I need a LOT less water to drink when racing and training than I used to on my old diet.

For those who are interested, have a look at this lecture by Peter Attia - about 30min into the lecture he explains the chemistry of why / how energy is produced and why you sometimes need glucose.

Yeah, saw that ... curious as to how they create ketones artificially. Think I'll stick to letting my liver do it for me

Depends on your budget, but we bought a Thermomix a while back and have been delighted with it. Designed for more than your average weekend kitchen warrior ... +- R12k, so not your average blender, makes nut butters with ease but also cooks, steams, shreds, grates, and does a bunch of other things too. The main advantage is that I can now cook just about everything from scratch - all sauces, mayo, herb blends, etc, etc. No more shop-bought condiments or sauces with weird ingredients http://www.sathermomix.com http://corporate.vor...chen-appliance/ Look for earlier posts on this thread ... IQof2's wife is an agent for them if you want more info.

Thanks, will give that a try. I suppose it's probably also a better approximation of a road race circumstances. With MTB the pace is pretty constant, but in road races the bunch is always surging as one after another the lads try to get ahead on the hills.

What's an egg??? :D No need for apologies ... My interest in Jc's approach is simply because it seems to me he is really making the most of the lCHF approach and it is clearly working for him. I also spent second half of last year doing lots of MAF style training, but now been adding some intensity stuff - think 2 hr tempo rides or an hour of hill repeats - and seem to be struggling on energy. My previous races were mostly of the endurance type (70-80% HRmax) for 4-6 hours. For these I'm happy with water, UCAN and refuelling with nuts/fats afterwards. I'm now looking at shorter sprint races like Argus, hence the increase in the intensity work, and wondering if I should try some regular carb style fuel for a change. Hence the question of carbs for race only or also for training.