BikeMax

Why not stop worrying about it and just pedal at the cadence that gives you the greatest output for the duration that matters to you...haven't you got enough to worry about

I had a similar problem with mine - basically very erratic power reading during a ride and then eventually is stopped picking up (even though sometimes it would work while dling offset) If it is not cable (I tried a new wiring kit first) then it is almost certainly battery, especially if it is due a change. Good luck - mine has been 100% since I had both batteries changed. BikeMax2008-12-08 01:55:45

Good question - and a tough one to quantify as there are many variables that will have an impact. There is no doubt that the better you get, the harder any improvements are to come by and returns are diminishing. That having been said - as a coached rider with some aspirations, knowing how you are performing on a day to day or week to week basis is invaluable. Being able to analyse your weak areas (in direct comparison to other riders) is also a big plus and ensures your training is targeted to address these areas (and then see if it is working) When I am able to show a rider a power curve of '07 Vs '08 and it shows him that he is putting out more power over all the key durations - then that is a very powerful tool. A 15k wheelset is a nice to have, but will not make a significant difference to performance. A bit like putting new wheels on your car as opposed to investing in the engine.. BikeMax2008-10-02 00:25:46

Thee have been a lot of good points covered here so I don't have much to add; 1. There is no doubt that training with power will help you to get the most return from your training time 2. Tracking porgress is a huge issue for cyclists - seeing hard evidence that the training you are doing is making you faster (before race day) helps a lot to keep you going when things get tough 3. Managing and tracking training load is a huge factor for most working athletes - finding the balance between enough and too much, and avoiding sickness is an area that a power meter can help a lot. In terms of cost and value - a PM is a far better investment IMO than any set of wheels. It will, with a little time and effort, help any rider to ride faster and to understand their performance. A set of wheels will make very little difference to most riders (The PM will also hold it's value more and probably last longer) In terms of ability levels - it is fair to say that most of us want to ride faster, wherever we are finishing, so something that will help us to do that is worthwhile whether 1st or 100th in a race. Let's not lose sight of the fact that it is a measuring device - nothing more. The data it provides however is useful to all cyclists interested in improving their riding.

As usual from you - uninformed opinion parading as fact.

I have just sold my Cannondale but can tell you that it is a superb tandem frame - very stiff and very light. I also looked at the Raleigh and it looks like a decent bike, but if you can afford it then I would seriously consider a Cannondale. You will also find the resale is better if/when you decide to sell it.

Well - you got my attention ... Do tell ?

PM's (and you could include HRM's) are a bit like vitamins' date=' anti-oxidants and all the other unpronounceable gunk that is added to the energy / recovery drinks available on the market, they all sound nice and can be promoted with all sorts of Scientific evidence, but at the end of the day do they really make a difference or do we need them? Take a sport outside of cycling i.e. one that where you cannot use a PM, road running would be a good example, plenty of athletes who don?t even use a HRM there and they manage just fine with their training and racing performance. I'm not knocking either of the 2, suppose you could say that I think that business marketing plays a role in the equation. I have used both PM and HRM in training (and still prefer my HRM). The best training tool is your brain [/quote'] I find this approach really hard to understand - to compare an advance in measuring technology to vitamins etc is way off the mark. It is a bit like saying - leave those new fangled clipless pedals alone, the old straps and clips we ride now are just as good ... Vitamins, nutritional supplements etc might do what they say they do and they might not, but a device like a power meter simply does what it says - it measures power output. Whether you think that being able to measure output is of use or not is up to you, but if you look at most fields you will see that advanced technology almost always leads to advancement in progres and performance (Smaller, faster computers, more accurate and powerful telescopes, digital cameras, more accurate measuring devices etc etc etc...) There have been many examples of new technology that has been introduced to cycling, rejected by the naysayers as marketing hype and then only a few years later universally accepeted as the norm - TT bars, clipless pedals, aero helmets, dual suss MTB, aero wheels, stiffer soled shoes - the list goes on an on. Just because somebody does well without something does not mean they cannot do better with it. Come on Peter you are exaggerating and perhaps getting paranoid, its amazing how you take offence to anyone who does not agree with your principals. I never said that PM?s should be left alone or implied that they are gimmicks that will disappear in a few years and believe it or not I even have a set of TT bars, clipless pedals, carbon soled shoes, dual susser mtb and used to own a set of carbon Aero wheels (yes I draw the line at owning an aero helmet). The comparison was not one of comparing a vitamin to a power meter but rather comparing advertising and coaching strategies, i.e. that a power meter is the only reliable way to reach your best fitness level. What I am saying is that they are not the ?be all? of training tools, but yes if used correctly they can provide excellent information during and after training or racing. A power meter is a great tool, but TBH compared to a HRM it is lacking, purely in the fact that it can only be used on your bike, whereas my HRM can be used for most sports i.e. swimming and running and you only need to buy 1 HRM at a fraction of the price. No offence was taken - nor am I paranoid. What I object to is a poorly drawn comparison and the accompanying insinuation - that the technology we are talking about is in some way similar to a marketing driven and unproven product. Perhaps you need to re read your first paragraph - you certainly do seem to imply they are ginmmicks pretty clearly as far as I can see... "PM's (and you could include HRM's) are a bit like vitamins, anti-oxidants and all the other unpronounceable gunk that is added to the energy / recovery drinks available on the market, they all sound nice and can be promoted with all sorts of Scientific evidence, but at the end of the day do they really make a difference or do we need them?" Power meters have certainly not been marketing driven and have never been touted as the only way to train - if the question is "are they the best tool for measuring your progress in cycling and achieving the most efficiency in your training" then IMO the answer is yes. To draw a comparison with running and using that as a benefit to training with HR is way off the issue that this thread is discussing - this is a cycling forum remember.

WB - this is not the case.. The two intervals were not the same in terms of workload (NP or TRIMPS) - the front loaded interval that the HR guys carried out was a higher load = greater gains. This is not about HR Vs power but about Iso Vs variable paced intervals I bet that if you look at the interval curve of 99% of riders you will see a front loaded curve - it is thenature of pacing to see guys start harder and then fade.. This study really only aims to show that ispower intervals done on an ergometer may be less effective than normally paced ones. BikeMax2008-04-20 11:10:18

Weird - I have had pretty much the same thing for 4/5 weeks now. Not feeling truly awful but the thought of getting up at 4.45 and riding has been totally beyond me. No major symptoms but really low energy. Finally last week back on the bike - real easy 4 hour week then managed 8 this week...

As an afterthought I wanted to add tjis quote by top ex physiologist about using a PM or HR as I think it sums things up pretty well; "I don't think it makes even the tiniest difference, at least over the long run, whether you prescribe and/or execute your training based on power, heart rate, perceived exertion, or some combination thereof. The simple fact of the matter is that the types of workouts that you do, and how often you do them, has far, far more to do with how much you improve (or not), than precisely how you do them. That's why, for example, I've constantly beaten the drum encouraging people to think in terms of training *with* a powermeter, vs. simply training *by* power. That said, however, I think that even when considering *only* how to prescribe and execute workouts, basing things on power has distinct advantages over basing them on heart rate and/or perceived exertion: 1) it's simple, and 2) it keeps people focussed on the true goal, which is to increase the power that you can produce for a given time, the duration for which you can produce a given power, and/or the effort required to produce a particular power for a particular duration. In contrast to this approach, those who train by heart rate and/or perceived exertion often seem to end up lost in the forest, simply because they lose sight of what it is they are really trying to accomplish. Andy Coggan

Shall I cancel your order ? In all seriousness and you know very well I am very suspect over PM. Now this comes out from a guy who I value his and a another persons opinion over everyone elses and he now comes out and says this. I am now even more messed up in the head about the PM deal!! I don't think you should be more confused at all - I think that regardless of the study and what it says, the take home from the Doc as I see it is this; Measuring your output with a power meter is the way forward but just make sure you use it properly - know thy tool.