BikeMax

Seen from a purely neutral, unemotional perspective Of course

Ultimately, it is going to depend on a few factors, but aerobic capacity is going to be the main one. The more power you can generate for the duration, the faster you are going to ride. I would imagine that knowing the sort of power you can maintain for 24 hours would be very useful information in managing your pacing (which has to be critical for this sort of race, where a spell at the wrong level will cost you dearly later) I think that the longer the race, the more even the pace becomes and as such, factors like shorter duration power (Anaerobic work capacity etc) become far less of a determining factor and power at threshold becomes far more of a determining factor. Essentially the higher your threshold, the faster you can ride, or the more headroom you have while riding at a lower pace - and as such the more you have left to ride for longer.. Anyway, got to go home now Cheers Peter

Be that as it may' date=' how do you explain the woman at 24 Hour World Champs? In the shorter races, and by this I mean 100 milers, they get annihilated but in the 24 hour racing they finish in and around the people that are killing them in the 100 milers. I've always wondered?[/quote'] The longer duration means lower intensity and as such they do not get put into difficulty by the "sharper" nature of the shorter race. The guys training for the shorter race more specifically might be training some shorter durations to help them make splits etc but this is less likely in the longer races I would guess.

The consensus then apears to be that you either need both or you need neither? What consensus is that then

Do you think that if you keep repeating something then that makes it true

Exactly what ??? You have given me no explanation at all for your conclusion that HR is necessary as well as power to achieve the best results. Please take me through the logic ?

Very true..

Basic principles of training = all endurance cycling performance is limited only by CV capacity (heart/lungs) If you don't have the CV capacity then you will not be able to ride at 5w/kg fo9r even 5 mins. Power levels that you can ride at are dictated only by CV capacity in endurance cycling.

Well let's say you are very fit and your max hr is 190 and you train at avg. 165 regardless of how you feel for 2 hours over a very undulating road.. chances are that you are probably training at a relatively high intensity.. Not really sure what you are getting at here.. but in fact your point does demonstrate why HR training is flawed - in your scenario you may well be fatigued and as such putting out a relatively low power for the HR or effort level you are riding at. This is how many people ride themselves into a hole of fatigue. If on the other hand' date=' you are riding to a set range of power - then if you are too tired to achieve this level then you know that rest might be a good idea today.. Lets break it down - if you know what your threshold power is you can then calculate training zones to elicit certain training effects. If you then set out on a session to achieve a certain training effect, let's say to increase aerobic endurance - then you can set out to ride in the zone that will elicit that response. The HR response to that is not really of any relevance because, if you are able to ride for the desired duration in the correct zone, then the training effect will be achieved. [/quote'] I agree with you there. Although I do not train with power or follow a training program for that matter, I understand the very basic principles of power training. Thx to you and Bruch All I am saying is you will be training at some level of intensity based on the scenario I posted, whether you are fatigued or not. Whether it will be of any benefit to you is another question. That is my point - you may well be training at a much lower intensity than you think due to fatigue - but you won't know it with HR and as such are simply adding fatigue with little or no fitness benefit.

Not really - for example the L4 Threshold zone is 95-105% of threshold power (FTP) FTP can be trained very effectively at 95% of FTP with a lower stress load and the ability to extend the duration and in turn recover faster. The higher zones like L5 V02 or L6 are more sensitive to being closer to the top of the range.

Isn't what the point ? Training does not always mean stressing your body to it's limits - there are many training effects that can be had at or below your personal limits.

All the power meter accuracy figures are "claimed"

Well let's say you are very fit and your max hr is 190 and you train at avg. 165 regardless of how you feel for 2 hours over a very undulating road.. chances are that you are probably training at a relatively high intensity.. Not really sure what you are getting at here.. but in fact your point does demonstrate why HR training is flawed - in your scenario you may well be fatigued and as such putting out a relatively low power for the HR or effort level you are riding at. This is how many people ride themselves into a hole of fatigue. If on the other hand, you are riding to a set range of power - then if you are too tired to achieve this level then you know that rest might be a good idea today.. Lets break it down - if you know what your threshold power is you can then calculate training zones to elicit certain training effects. If you then set out on a session to achieve a certain training effect, let's say to increase aerobic endurance - then you can set out to ride in the zone that will elicit that response. The HR response to that is not really of any relevance because, if you are able to ride for the desired duration in the correct zone, then the training effect will be achieved.

Road..