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Odinson

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  1. You’re obviously digging your heels in and being purposefully obtuse, but for your benefit, I’ll explain it again. The examples were used to highlight the inherent contradiction when claiming moral relativism in regards to animal exploitation. Thus: “Racism is a personal choice” - We reject that position. “Sexism is a personal choice” - We reject that position. “Homophobia is a personal choice” - We reject that position. We don’t when it comes to animal exploitation. However, we should, because it is premised on the same flawed rationalisation as the above. It’s premised on the same arbitrary logic - take one characteristic of a group and use it as justification to exploit, be it race, religion or on this case species.
  2. Comparing social justice movements. Pretty obvious once you check your ego at the door.
  3. Let’s be glad that the anti-Apartheid activists, Civil Rights Movement, the Suffragettes, etc. didn’t share this opinion. ✌????
  4. This too from Grillo: “Another misguided belief goes back to my earlier point about the denial of the animal as victim as well as the human as perpetrator. And it all too often leads us to the erroneous conclusion that eating animal products is a morally- neutral act, a personal choice, or some other variation on this theme. There is a hidden judgment in the statement, “Don’t judge.” If you claim that people should not be judged for eating animal products, then you also are making the judgment that an animal’s entire lifetime of experiences is worth even less than satisfying some trivial, momentary taste sensation. Such a judgment stems from an entrenched prejudice against a handful of species that we just so happen to want to exploit and kill for food. Once we become aware of this prejudice — and the ensuing injustice perpetrated against its victims — there is no personal, neutral or morally-relative position on eating animal products that we have no biological need to eat. If animals matter even in the most superfluous sense, then we don’t violate their most basic right to life and liberty when we can so easily avoid it, such as in the case of veganism, where we can replace animal products with kinder and more nutritious alternatives.”
  5. This. This is what I've been trying to put in words these past few pages: “When the victim under consideration is a non-human animal — a member of another species — then suddenly the issue of slavery or exploitation becomes a matter of “opinion.” That is to say, our culture supports the unquestioned belief that human slavery and oppression is wrong based at least on the principle of justice for all, whereas animal slavery and oppression is simply a matter of opinion. It’s morally relative. And therein lies the problem. Therein lies our cultural bias of human supremacy. As long as we believe that just being a member of another species is a valid reason to exploit or discriminate, or to use that “inferior other” as our piece of property, then we accept the same flawed beliefs that rationalize exploitation based on religion, color, race, gender and sexual preference.” -Robert Grillo
  6. Yeah, I figured as much.
  7. We’ve got a bad ass over here!
  8. No. It’s not. Is a vegetable a living, sentient being? Just because something has being going on for a long time doesn’t make it right. And FYI our transition to an agricultural society occurred about 10,000 years ago and intensive farming only came about in the past 200 years. Not quite “before time”. I know it’s Friday, but don’t be facetious just to say something.
  9. Is bringing an animal into this world just so it can have its neck slit in a few weeks’ or months’ time not animal abuse? A cow can live up to 15-20 years, but dairy cows rarely make it past 6, because their bodies give in from forced pregnancy after forced pregnancy. Chickens have been selectively bread to reach slaughter weight in a few weeks time, growing so quickly that their legs can barely support their body weight and they suffer from ammonia burns from living their entire lives in their own excrement. The examples are endless. This is abuse. It is exploitation. We have no right to do this to these animals. We do it simply because we can. And I don’t think it’s necessary for me to explain as to why ‘Might is Right’ is a morally bankrupt position.
  10. ‘Cause it shows the inherent contradiction and hypocrisy of meat eater logic. “Kick my dog and I’ll moer you!” “Mmm, steak!”
  11. Shhh! You’ll feel like a champ afterwards!
  12. Ding! Ding! Ding! Well, his and all the other investors I suppose.
  13. You know, it's not as daunting as it seems. There's definitely a learning curve. Easiest and most impactful is to start with your plate. I think it also makes one more aware of the impact of your consumer choices - where do things come from, how were they made, etc.
  14. Fortunately there are vegan alternatives for basically everything. The only leather objects I have, off the top off my head, are my late father's leather-bound Bible and a leather belt I got years ago. Edit: I'm lying. My sofas. We bought them from Ikea in 2015 and they have some leather pieces. Ironically about 6 months or so before I started toying with veganism. We're going to replace them in Jan '20.
  15. This brings us back to the question. If you don't have to do it, why do we do it? It also goes back to the point I was making earlier. Can you ethically and morally exploit? We reject that notion when we discuss human interactions, but accept it when it comes to non-human animals. How can we morally kill an animal who does not want to die and who's death is just to satisfy our craving for a steak? I hear what you're saying, but my little peanut just cannot accept that there is such a things as 'just a little exploitation, a little death, just for that cheese and steak' is okay. As to your last point, veganism doesn't ask you to do that.
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