MTB wheel advice

[KevinV]

I'm sure there already threads about this but not in the mood for searching. Any input would be appreciated.

I have WTB SpeedDisc wheels with very average Shimano hubs. After about 1000km on this wheelset, I have started snapping spokes. Apparently, the spokes on my wheels are cheap and nasty, and my LBS has advised me to have them rebuilt with better spokes if I break any more. Sounds like this will cost in the region of R700 for both wheels.

Would this be a good option, and if so, what spokes should I get? Can I shave weight off my wheels this way, have heard that I can.

While I'm at it, should I upgrade hubs?

Other option I guess is to buy another wheelset, but would rather ride this bike into the ground and then buy another, better bike. Maybe in a year or so. Should I just put better spokes on and carry on like that?

So many questions, I sound like you Slowbee!!!

[Marius]

If you go with the DT Swiss Revolution spokes you's shave a crap load of weight off, use the calulator on the DT Swiss site to workout out how much. They are very expensive those, best to buy it from CRC, will go for about R1100 here and about R700 at CRC. - THATS'S for the blk ones, the silver would be cheaper.Marius2008-09-12 04:21:41

[Johan Bornman]

If you go with the DT Swiss Revolution spokes you's shave a crap load of weight off' date=' use the calulator on the DT Swiss site to workout out how much. They are very expensive those, best to buy it from CRC, will go for about R1100 here and about R700 at CRC. - THATS'S for the blk ones, the silver would be cheaper.[/quote']

 

 

Marius you seem very generous with your advice. Perhaps you'd like to elaborate and quantify that crap load of weight the OP will save and what purpose it will serve.

[Marius]

Hahahaha, ag Johan, jy sal tog nie virstaan wat 50g vir n weight weenie beten nie, so ek gaan nie eers try explain nie:-P Kan sy bike van 11kg na 10.9kg vat, klink al klaar baie beter.

[Johan Bornman]

I'm sure there already threads about this but not in the mood for searching. Any input would be appreciated.

I have WTB SpeedDisc wheels with very average Shimano hubs. After about 1000km on this wheelset' date=' I have started snapping spokes. Apparently, the spokes on my wheels are cheap and nasty, and my LBS has advised me to have them rebuilt with better spokes if I break any more. Sounds like this will cost in the region of R700 for both wheels.

Would this be a good option, and if so, what spokes should I get? Can I shave weight off my wheels this way, have heard that I can.

While I'm at it, should I upgrade hubs?

Other option I guess is to buy another wheelset, but would rather ride this bike into the ground and then buy another, better bike. Maybe in a year or so. Should I just put better spokes on and carry on like that?

So many questions, I sound like you Slowbee!!!

[/quote']

 

Kevin, if you want co-operation here and get some useful advice I suggest you a) don't tell people that you are too lazy to search for something and that they should rather chip in and just do the work for you and b) give better data to work with. "Average Shimano hubs" doesn't give us much to work with, nor does subjective phrases like "cheap and nasty".

 

Spokes cost about R8-50 or so each and considering that you have 64 of them on your bike, spokes alone will cost you R544. The wheelbuilder lthat offers to do the job for you for R156-00 will not value the cost of his own time and will simply build you another set of crappy wheels.

 

Finally, I doubt you snapped the spokes. Snapping using comes from some form of trauma where the spokes were snapped in tension. I think your spokes broke from metal fatigue, a good sign of a poor wheelbuild to start off with. I don't know WTB Speed Disk wheels but WTB is a reputable company and if their wheels start to break spokes at only 1000 kms, something is seriously amiss.

 

Either you modify your mileage estimate or you give us a better description of the real problem. Methinks you have some money coming to you and you're doing some idle fishing.

 

 

[KevinV]

So can spokes be a big weight saver then? What does double-butted and triple-butted mean?

[Johan Bornman]

So can spokes be a big weight saver then? What does double-butted and triple-butted mean?

 

No, they're never a big weight saver, especially on mountain bike wheels where the spokes are shorter and any savings are diluted.

 

Triple butted is a nonsense word invented by the spoke industry. A spoke only has two ends so there's nothing triple about it. Double butted on the other hand is also a misnomer. However, it means that the two ends of the spokes are slightly thicker than the centre part (shaft of the spoke). Butting suggests that something was made thicker, but in the case of a spoke it was in fact the centre that was made thinner.

 

Standard double-butted spokes are 2mm in dia at the two ends and 1.8mm in dia in the centre. DT Revolution spokes are slightly thinner in the centre at 1.5mm but still 2mm at the two ends.

 

Triple butted indicates that the spoke is one dia at the J-bend, a different dia at the thread and yet another dia in the centre. It serves no purpose.

 

 

[KevinV]

Johan, I'm genuinely looking for some advice here. Not exactly sure what hubs I have, they are Shimano, my bike is specced with Deore and LX, so ithey are in that range I guess. The spokes that broke have all been on the drive side, at the hub. I'm not madly keen on spending loads of money here, but would rather spend some than keep finifhing rides with a wobbly wheel and having to go to a shop to get it fixed.

By cheap and nasty spokes, I mean that it has been suggested to me by bike shop staff that this may be the case.

With regard to the mileage on these wheels, I'm not estimating. I zeroed the computer when I got the bike. I've done 987km on the wheels.

Basically, it looks like a wheel rebuild is going to be what it needed, I am simply trying to ascertain what my best course of action is here.

You always seem to give good technical advice, so am hoping for some insight.

Thanks for the explanation of butting of spokes. Makes perfect sense now!

KevinV2008-09-12 04:49:18

[Johan Bornman]

Hahahaha' date=' ag Johan, jy sal tog nie virstaan wat 50g vir n weight weenie beten nie, so ek gaan nie eers try explain nie:-P Kan sy bike van 11kg na 10.9kg vat, klink al klaar baie beter.[/quote']

 

Ha ha. So, 'n pakhuis vol gewig is dus 50g? Whopeee.

 

Ek gaan gou die valve caps van my wiele afhaal en wegsmyt....ek's nou terug.

[Slowbee]

 

 

Kev, which LBS did you use ??

 

Did you go to the guys whose cycle shirt you are wearing ?

 

 

Slowbee2008-09-12 04:49:50

[KevinV]

Hahahaha' date=' ag Johan, jy sal tog nie virstaan wat 50g vir n weight weenie beten nie, so ek gaan nie eers try explain nie:-P Kan sy bike van 11kg na 10.9kg vat, klink al klaar baie beter.[/quote']

 

Ha ha. So, 'n pakhuis vol gewig is dus 50g? Whopeee.

 

Ek gaan gou die valve caps van my wiele afhaal en wegsmyt....ek's nou terug.

Oh yes, and I'm not a weight weenie. I weigh 90kg and ride a 12.5kg bike.Any weight saving would have to be substantial to be of any use to me!

[KevinV]

Kev' date=' which LBS did you use ??

Did you go to the guys whose cycle shirt you are wearing ?


[/quote']

I have been to a number of shops, don't want to mention any names.

[Marius]

Ok pansie, 32 Revolution spokes at 264mm will come in at 148grams, x 2 = 296g

 

The Competion spokes will weigh 196g for 32 x 2 = 392grams so that's a saving of almost 100grams!!! That's a crap load on just spokes.

 

He's spokes might even been heavier than the DT Swiss Competitions since it's a cheap wheelset, so the weight saving might be will into the 100grams.

 

[Marius]

Then add the rims, probably in the 450gram range per rim, you can get yourself some light one's at 350grams per rim, that a whopping saving of another 200grams!!! Then lets look at the Hubs, probably heavy entry level Shimano crap in the 500-600gram range, get some American Classic's or DT Swiss 250's and save another 200grams there.

 

My point is, every little counts at the end of the day.

[Johan Bornman]

Kevin, OK, you say "Average hubs". The fact that there's Deore written all over the most visible part of your bike namely the rear derailer, means that they cheated on all the other parts. The BB and headset will be the most rubbish, followed by the hubs and cranks. This is how companies spec low end bikes.

 

Lets assume you have Shimano VIAM (SP?) hubs on there. They're rubbish. If it is LX or XT, you're OK. I won't spend money building good wheels on rubbish hubs.

 

I think you have a genuine gaurantee case here. Wheels that don't make 1 000 kms are faulty and must be replace in their entirety by the distributor. Unfortunately he'll only replace them with the same and then 1000kms later you have the same problem.

 

1) Figure out if your hubs are VIAM or better.

2) Figure out if your rims are worthy components of a wheel you'd like to spend some money on.

3) If yes to all the above, find yourself a good wheelbuilder and ask him to rebuild the wheel for you using brand name double-butted spokes. As him to stress-releive the wheels for you, balance the tension and ensure that the spoke exit directions follow the same as the previous wheel (in other words, you don't want new notches in the hub).

4) If he hesitates and bullsh*ts around any of the issues in Point 3 above, take your business elsewhere. Most so-called wheelbuilders don't understand stress relieving, hence their legacy of broken spokes.

 

[KevinV]

Fair enough Marius, but basically what I want is a solution to all the broken spokes. Any weight saving would be a bonus, provided that it doesn't cost a ridiculous amount. Sounds like my best bet is a rebuild with existing hubs and rims, just with a better quality set of spokes.

Thanks.