Magura Louise brake pads

[Cycles Africa]

Hello everyone following this thread. I see from reading the posts that there seems to be some misunderstanding with respect to a number of issues pertaining to the correct functioning of disc brakes and use of aftermarket products.

 

Cycles Africa has represented Magura in South Africa since 1997, in that same year Magura released their first Disc Brake, the Gustav M DH brake. Magura have been making hydraulic brakes for bicycles since 1987.

 

It is important to note from the outset that your brakes are a safety critical item on your bike. In other words they are parts that should not fail!

 

I?d like to start by clearing up the topic of heat transfer during brake use. The information below is directly from Bernd, the service Manager for Magura in Germany

 

START QUOTE "In a brake system in fact of the friction you will always generate heat during the braking period.

With the organic brake pads we can keep this heat a little bit out of the system, but we will ALWAYS have temperature in the system.

On the braking stand in the test lab we will have a temperature about 200?Celsius in normal cases.

If we will use not organic pads the heat will increase and the complete system will overheat, in the worst case it will also be possible that the seal in the master will be damaged.

So it is NOT true that we will have NO heat in the braking system and that we will cool down the brake only with the rotor.

This is also the reason, that sometimes in very critical cases if you will have a 100% carbon fibre frame or fork, the brake system will OVERHEAT immediately because carbon fibre is also a very good isolator and so the heat will stay 100% in the brake system and will NOT transported away.

If our test rider will go out in the Austrian alps for testing brakes in very steep real life conditions, they will have so a high temperature in the frame, that even in disastrous rainy conditions, the complete rear stay of the frame will keep dry.

So you see that the heat will still go at every place in the system and NOT only in the rotor. " END QUOTE

 

I can attest to this, from my experience at Sani2C this year. I was stuck behind a slower rider going down nicks pass. At the bottom I waited for my partner and felt my brakes, the caliper was hot, the frame was warm and the rotor was hot. I did not have any brake fade at all.

 

Secondly, with respect to the use of after market brake pads in Magura brakes.

 

There are a number of reasons why this is not a good idea.

 

Firstly, Magura test all their brake pads performance in combination with the Magura rotors in a test lab to ensure that they are safe and function correctly as a pair. Magura know the working tolerances for all their parts and they also fully understand the correct combination of pad friction surfaces and rotor material.

 

Magura do not know what the performance or braking characteristics of other pads may be when fitted to a Magura brake and used in conjunction with a Magura Rotor. This is a safety concern.

 

The second and probably biggest problem is that of liability.

 

Magura manufacture a product with a given specification and they know the tolerances and that the parts will function correctly in combination.

Now if someone fits a brake pad, rotor, uses alternative oils or any other part which is not original they become what is known as a " re-manufacturer" and the product liability shifts from original manufacturer (Magura) to the re-manufacturer.

This is because the working parameters of the brake system have now been changed.

 

Essentially it boils to down to the personal safety of the user!

 

There are other areas where an aftermarket disc brake pad may not work as well as the original.

 

These include:

Thermal conductivity

Judder

Brake noise

Uneven and/or rapid pad wear

Sensitivity to pressure and speed

Braking performance and modulation

Potential damage to the rotor

 

The bottom line is that in order for a disc brake system to run safely at its maximum and best performance you should keep it running with all original parts!

 

I trust this clears up any confusion in these areas.

 

Should any of you wish to discuss this further please feel free to give me a call.

011 888 3700

 

Robert Cunnington

Owner

Cycles Africa

www.cyclesafrica.co.za

 

 

[Johan Bornman]

Hello everyone following this thread. I see from reading the posts that there seems to be some misunderstanding with respect to a number of issues pertaining to the correct functioning of disc brakes and use of aftermarket....

 

cut cut cut cut cut

 

Robert Cunnington
Owner
Cycles Africa
www.cyclesafrica.co.za

 

Dear Robert, I'm sure you mean well, but this is the Tech Forum where we talk science, not marketing.

 

Have another look at the explanation here of where heat is generated in the system and listen to reason. I see nothing wrong with Magura wanting to sell original equipment, but when you distribute FUD in order to do so you will be tackled by one or two voices of reason on this forum.

 

 

 

 

[Wyatt Earp]

Tech Forum

 

Science ? or science fiction ?

This should be a forum for fact and not some of the hogwash I have read.

Are you a scientist Mr. Yellow saddle ?

The tech forum as I understand is to give advice and various opinions and it will be up to each individual to decide which way they would like to swing.

I get the impression that whatever YOU say is gospel and who ever goes against what you speak is there to market.

Trust me, there is very little, sorry let's make that NOTHING, you will be able to teach Rob Cunnington regarding Magura hydraulic brakes.

Now where is my chainbreaker ?

[idrive]

I've got the packaging from my replacement front pads right here ... it says: Made by Magura Germany - 1 Stuck/piece - 0721304 - R220.

 

Part number for the rears is the same. I ride in mainly sand/farm roads seldom mud and average around 400km per month. Now my point is these pads don't last me a year. So far the rears have lasted 2-months longer than the front (1 year) but Magura Julie pads are scarce and at R220 I think very expensive.

 

As I'm not hard on brakes so I'm prepared to try an aftermarket/pirate product and see what transpires ..... but I can't find any. I get told 'we'll get them in a week," but I always think I'll walk into a shop and find them.

 

If I'm paying that kind of money then they should be available. If not it'll be worth changing my calipers to something else.

 

The cost of having Magura brake pads works out to R40 per month.

[Johan Bornman]

 

Quoting Bernd' date=' the service Manager for Magura in Germany.

In a brake system in fact of the friction you will always generate heat during the braking period.
With the organic brake pads we can keep this heat a little bit out of the system, but we will ALWAYS have temperature in the system.

 

If I wade through the German translation I gather that the main point of this statement is that organic brake pads will somehow generate less heat or, keep the heat within itself and not exchange it with the disk. Point is, that momentum has to be converted into some other form of energy and in this case it can only be heat or squeal. Taken that squeal is avoided like the plague, all the momentum is transferred into heat energy. For a given rider decellerating from and to a given speed, the heat generated will always be the same. This is irrespective of pad type.

 

On the braking stand in the test lab we will have a temperature about 200?Celsius in normal cases.
If we will use not organic pads the heat will increase and the complete system will overheat, in the worst case it will also be possible that the seal in the master will be damaged.

 

200? Celcius is easily attainable, but Bernd doesn't say at what point in the system it is measured. I guess on the disc. Discs get much hotter than that since we know they can glow. Most of that heat is exchanged with the air, directly from the disk itself. A very small amount of that heat is exchanged backwards through the pad to the caliper and fluid and an even smaller amount of that heat is exchanged through the wheel bearings with the spokes and frame. The least amount of exchange happens here since the heat has to go through a bottle-neck the size of the accumulated contact surface areas of the ten little ball bearings in the front hub. Therefore, frame material is irrelevant for heat exchange on a bicycle disk brake.

 

So it is NOT true that we will have NO heat in the braking system and that we will cool down the brake only with the rotor.

 

No, it is not true, but 85% of the heat generated will dissipate through the rotor into the atmosphere.

 

This is also the reason, that sometimes in very critical cases if you will have a 100% carbon fibre frame or fork, the brake system will OVERHEAT immediately because carbon fibre is also a very good isolator and so the heat will stay 100% in the brake system and will NOT transported away.

This is a erroneous understanding of heat exchange in this system for the reasons explained above. A small amount of heat will go to the frame from the calliper contact area but in the bigger scheme of things, the critical area is the disck. It's size is the ultimate determinator of heat exchange in this system.

 

If our test rider will go out in the Austrian alps for testing brakes in very steep real life conditions, they will have so a high temperature in the frame, that even in disastrous rainy conditions, the complete rear stay of the frame will keep dry.
So you see that the heat will still go at every place in the system and NOT only in the rotor. " END QUOTE

 

I find this difficult to believe. In order for the rear stay to keep dry in disastrous rainy conditions (in other words whilst getting continuously drenched with cool water), it'll have to maintain its temperature at the sizzling point mark and we simply just don't see scorched frames from these riders riding and braking in the dry. This is a dicey statement.

[/quote']

 

Back to

I can attest to this' date=' from my experience at Sani2C this year. I was stuck behind a slower rider going down nicks pass. At the bottom I waited for my partner and felt my brakes, the caliper was hot, the frame was warm and the rotor was hot. I did not have any brake fade at all.

 

[/quote']

 

This is more like a realistic statement - hot disc, less hot calliper and warm frame. I just don't believe the German sizzling frame story no matter how steep the Alps.

 

Magura manufacture a product with a given specification and they know the tolerances and that the parts will function correctly in combination.
Now if someone fits a brake pad' date=' rotor, uses alternative oils or any other part which is not original they become what is known as a " re-manufacturer" and the product liability shifts from original manufacturer (Magura) to the re-manufacturer.
This is because the working parameters of the brake system have now been changed.

Essentially it boils to down to the personal safety of the user!

There are other areas where an aftermarket disc brake pad may not work as well as the original.

These include:
Thermal conductivity
Judder
Brake noise
Uneven and/or rapid pad wear
Sensitivity to pressure and speed
Braking performance and modulation
Potential damage to the rotor

The bottom line is that in order for a disc brake system to run safely at its maximum and best performance you should keep it running with all original parts!

[/quote']

 

I think it is acceptable for distributors to want to sell original spares but the age-old practice of spreading FUD is best avoided.

[idrive]

Secondly' date=' with respect to the use of after market brake pads in Magura brakes.

There are a number of reasons why this is not a good idea.

Firstly, Magura test all their brake pads performance in combination with the Magura rotors in a test lab to ensure that they are safe and function correctly as a pair. Magura know the working tolerances for all their parts and they also fully understand the correct combination of pad friction surfaces and rotor material.

Magura do not know what the performance or braking characteristics of other pads may be when fitted to a Magura brake and used in conjunction with a Magura Rotor. This is a safety concern.

The second and probably biggest problem is that of liability.

Magura manufacture a product with a given specification and they know the tolerances and that the parts will function correctly in combination.
Now if someone fits a brake pad, rotor, uses alternative oils or any other part which is not original they become what is known as a " re-manufacturer" and the product liability shifts from original manufacturer (Magura) to the re-manufacturer.
This is because the working parameters of the brake system have now been changed.

Essentially it boils to down to the personal safety of the user!

There are other areas where an aftermarket disc brake pad may not work as well as the original.

These include:
Thermal conductivity
Judder
Brake noise
Uneven and/or rapid pad wear
Sensitivity to pressure and speed
Braking performance and modulation
Potential damage to the rotor

The bottom line is that in order for a disc brake system to run safely at its maximum and best performance you should keep it running with all original parts!

I trust this clears up any confusion in these areas.

[/quote']

 

......... Oh, and what about rotors etc that offer better performance than the standard mass produced hardware.

 

I have two sets of wheels but couldn't tell you if they are fitted with original Magura discs or not and I don't know which wheels were originally on the bike.

 

Better brake fluid is also available, so are aftermarket brake hoses and how do I know what fluid my LBS has filled the system with after a service............ somehow the attitude from Magura has put me off them