Daylight Robbery

[niterider]

If you exceed R20k of stuff imported per year, you will have to register as an importer. Your stuff will sit with customs until you do so, so make sure you stay under that limit.

[Comebackboy]

So are you going to start importing your groceries as well seeing you spend about 2 grand a month on that?? or why dont you import your clothes as well?? Hows about your car?? people need to make a living and need to make money!! you pay for the convenience of walking in to a shop and picking something up, looking at it and paying for it, taking it home right there and then!! With more and more people importing their own stuff the bike shops have to up their prices to keep head above water. How would you feel if people start cutting you out in your line of work??

[Daxiet]

When I go shopping for more kit I can assure you I am going to get it via CRC. I already have my basket packed, I am just waiting for certain stock to be replenished.

 

You definetly get a lot more variety on CRC, plus the comfort of planning your purchase in more detail. In many cases you look for a particular item and find that you just can't get your paws on it in SA, or at any shop close by/at a respectable price.

 

However for small items that are needed periodically like, tubes, tyres, etc LBS is better. But yes they generally make this sport overly expensive.

 

As for labour pricing, how much a LBS charges for labour does not determine the quality of the work. Unfortunetly you'll need to experiment to find a LBS that delivers good Quality, thus far I believe in DIY and when I do "outsource" it, I experiment, thus far no worthy LBS found, just disapointment

 

[javadude]

If you import, make sure its sent via traceable courier. I used Royal Mail for a saddle from SigmaSport in the UK. Last trace was "handed over to SA postal service", then poof, disappeared into thin air. Customs say they never got the package, so who knows where it is.

 

All my CRC and TotalCycling orders using parcelforce arrived in good time though, so they are both a good option.

 

[bustthesickness]

 

If you exceed R20k of stuff imported per year' date=' you will have to register as an importer. Your stuff will sit with customs until you do so, so make sure you stay under that limit.

[/quote']

Thanks for the advice. That's why the 'book club' idea is there. This is basically to avoid the shipping costs to import. I'd say it would be best to find a bunch of people who all spend roughly the same a month on spares and gear, and each month a different person runs the payment on their credit card (as it would stuff up my books to do otherwise anyways). My idea is basically just to be able to make an order that is over R4000 each time so as to avoid the shipping fee, not set up a distribution network of any sorts.

 

[bustthesickness]

 

So are you going to start importing your groceries as well seeing you spend about 2 grand a month on that?? or why dont you import your clothes as well?? Hows about your car?? people need to make a living and need to make money!! you pay for the convenience of walking in to a shop and picking something up' date=' looking at it and paying for it, taking it home right there and then!! With more and more people importing their own stuff the bike shops have to up their prices to keep head above water. How would you feel if people start cutting you out in your line of work??[/quote']

 

You're kidding right?

 

I often do. Many of the clothes I like happen to not be available here.

 

Doesn't give bike shops the right to screw people. People have the right to buy items anywhere they choose. You are right though, we need to make a living, and I'm all for supporting local businesses, unless they rip me off. Nobody is a fool anymore here. Most bike shops lack a full range of stock, and to be honest, I normally make pre-emptive purchases rather than impulsive ones, so my need to be instantly gratified through retail therapy is nil. 

 

 

 

 

[vaulter1]

@bustthesickness:  The only other thing I would add is that it's not just R20,000 imported but only 3 "imports" per year.  I have not been caught out by either yet - imported well over R20,000 is about 7 shipments but just something to keep in mind.  As far as I know, and someone please correct me in I'm wrong, you just have to register as an importer with customs if you do more - there are no additional fees or charges (other than the standard Vat, etc.)

[Comebackboy]

So are you going to start importing your groceries as well seeing you spend about 2 grand a month on that?? or why dont you import your clothes as well?? Hows about your car?? people need to make a living and need to make money!! you pay for the convenience of walking in to a shop and picking something up' date=' looking at it and paying for it, taking it home right there and then!! With more and more people importing their own stuff the bike shops have to up their prices to keep head above water. How would you feel if people start cutting you out in your line of work??[/quote']

You're kidding right?

I often do. Many of the clothes I like happen to not be available here.

Doesn't give bike shops the right to screw people. People have the right to buy items anywhere they choose. You are right though, we need to make a living, and I'm all for supporting local businesses, unless they rip me off. Nobody is a fool anymore here. Most bike shops lack a full range of stock, and to be honest, I normally make pre-emptive purchases rather than impulsive ones, so my need to be instantly gratified through retail therapy is nil. 

 

I eat allot ok!!

 

I mean like your day to day clothes!

 

You are right by what you mean that people should not rip you of... But shop around, tell the guy in the store that you are finding it so much cheaper online and if they dont bring their prices down they will loose your bussiness... Rather talk to the people and explain to them that you are not a sucker and you have done your homework on what you want...

[bustthesickness]

 

So are you going to start importing your groceries as well seeing you spend about 2 grand a month on that?? or why dont you import your clothes as well?? Hows about your car?? people need to make a living and need to make money!! you pay for the convenience of walking in to a shop and picking something up' date=' looking at it and paying for it, taking it home right there and then!! With more and more people importing their own stuff the bike shops have to up their prices to keep head above water. How would you feel if people start cutting you out in your line of work??[/quote']

 

You're kidding right?

 

I often do. Many of the clothes I like happen to not be available here.

 

Doesn't give bike shops the right to screw people. People have the right to buy items anywhere they choose. You are right though, we need to make a living, and I'm all for supporting local businesses, unless they rip me off. Nobody is a fool anymore here. Most bike shops lack a full range of stock, and to be honest, I normally make pre-emptive purchases rather than impulsive ones, so my need to be instantly gratified through retail therapy is nil. 

 

 

 

 

I eat allot ok!!

 

I mean like your day to day clothes!

 

You are right by what you mean that people should not rip you of... But shop around, tell the guy in the store that you are finding it so much cheaper online and if they dont bring their prices down they will loose your bussiness... Rather talk to the people and explain to them that you are not a sucker and you have done your homework on what you want...

 

My day to day clothes tend to just be a Speedo, cos I'm an aspiring life guard, but they never have the patterns I like at PEP

 

I have no desire or time to bargain a shop down. If I do get a cheaper price, it means someone else might not bargain, and get ripped off. Anyway, if it makes you feel better, the support your local thieving bike  shop/cartel, but I'd rather just log onto CRC, place an order, open the box, smile at my new CHEAP shiny gear, and spend the money I saved on beer.

 

[Comebackboy]

My day to day clothes tend to just be a Speedo' date=' cos I'm an aspiring life guard, but they never have the patterns I like at PEP

I have no desire or time to bargain a shop down. If I do get a cheaper price, it means someone else might not bargain, and get ripped off. Anyway, if it makes you feel better, the support your local thieving bike  shop/cartel, but I'd rather just log onto CRC, place an order, open the box, smile at my new CHEAP shiny gear, and spend the money I saved on beer.
[/quote']

 

Also true man!! different strokes for different folks!!

[101SCC]

Buy what you want, when you want, from where you want. If you want to pool orders you'll get screwed somewhere by someone that can't / won't pay. Warranty issues, incorrect orders blah blah blah. Who wants the hassle!

 

CRC / Total Cycling is cheaper than LBS including Shipping and VAT. So if you want to buy from them it's the best option.

 

LBS is great for maintenance and spares...chains, brake pads, cables (consumables really)...

 

LBS should be happy with Labour and consumables and a smart guy would have CRC online in the shop and charge a handling fee...CRC is sometimes cheaper than from the importer, but CRC can't true my wheel!

 

Less stock = less space / rent = lower overheads equals more profit!

 

By the way, well done for shutting JB down...that's a first

[bustthesickness]

 

Buy what you want' date=' when you want, from where you want. If you want to pool orders you'll get screwed somewhere by someone that can't / won't pay. Warranty issues, incorrect orders blah blah blah. Who wants the hassle![/quote']

Good point that. Possibly better to team up with mates then.

 

 

By the way' date=' well done for shutting JB down...that's a first[/quote']

I appreciate Johan's input on the subject. There are, besides him, other people in SA who can build a decent wheel though, and his price estimations are not accurate. It's not rocket science, but simple procedure.

 

 

 

[Quayum]

Please dont get me wrong - i in no way support that cyclists get ripped off , but maybe I can shed some light on the issue .

 

Pls bear in mind that our local bicycle industry is fairly smal compared to that of Europe & UK and USA .

Having said this , the market size is far bigger - and hence higher demand by dealers , mean they get far better prices and can sell for far cheaper .

 

Also , bear in mind that it is a SA culture thing , that we try and use a part for  as long as possible . In Europe , expecially in Belgium , where I raced , guys will use a groupset for 1 season only and no more . They then buy a new one .

Again the demand is constantly higher hence lower prices .

On average , in SA , people tend to use a groupset for 2 to 4 years if the bike is not stolen or in an accident .

 

[Daxiet]

When I go shopping for more kit I can assure you I am going to get it via CRC. I already have my basket packed, I am just waiting for certain stock to be replenished.

 

You definetly get a lot more variety on CRC, plus the comfort of planning your purchase in more detail. In many cases you look for a particular item and find that you just can't get your paws on it in SA, or at any shop close by/at a respectable price.

 

However for small items that are needed periodically like, tubes, tyres, etc LBS is better. But yes they generally make this sport overly expensive.

 

As for labour pricing, how much a LBS charges for labour does not determine the quality of the work. Unfortunetly you'll need to experiment to find a LBS that delivers good Quality, thus far I believe in DIY and when I do "outsource" it, I experiment, thus far no worthy LBS found, just disapointment

 

[Johan Bornman]

 

 

I was quoted R2400 for a hope rear hub' date=' R700 for a 321, R11 a spoke. 32 spoke hub.

[CRC: Hope Hub R1590.02; Mavic 321 R251.64; DT spokes R4,12/spoke']

 

It's my mistake. I now see the cost PLUS the labour charge of R900. My calculation was based on estimating the component cost and then deducing the labour cost. Sorry.

 

But back to some of the points.

 

I have no idea what his margin on the hub is, but I don't think R900 is excessive for a good job.

 

"Are you prepared to put up with something slapped together by an unskilled person charging R100 per hour?"

No' date=' I'm not. My last wheel built was done by FritzP in Pta. I didnt pay R700 to R900 for the build. The guy who built my wheel knows my riding style. I have run that wheel for over 9 months and by "still going strong" I mean it is still as true as the day I got it, and it is still stiff. I ride hard. I abuse the sh*t out of my wheels. The wheel has seen big drops, kickers, and been slammed hard into things. So yes, you DO get what you pay for. R500 is still too much to charge for a wheel. Seriously, it's not rocket science. There is software available that provides all the data you need to choose the correct spokes, and seriously, it's a spoked wheel, not a large hadron collider!

[/quote']

 

I want to point out a few mispercetions here.

 

1) Riding style has nothing to do with how a wheel is built. A wheel for an old granny going to church is built exactly like a wheel for an athletic rider. The components may differ, but tensions and all the other builder input remain the same. If the builder knows you or doesnt know you, you'll still get the same wheel.

 

2) Aggressive riding and wheel longevity. Riding aggressively has no effect on a wheel. Most of the fatigue emanges from the weight the wheel has to carry. Doing a jump only relieves tension in the wheel, not increase it. Hitting a pothole...ditto.

 

3) Wheel stiffness. A wheel that is stiff enough, it stiff enough. Upping the tension doesn't make it stiffer. Spokes are made from a Hookean material and will therefore stretch in a linear fashion with tension. Also, they don't loose stiffness in use unless the spokes go completely slack, but then that's no longer a wheel and shouldn't be compared.

 

4) Slamming into things - front on. It only reduces spoke tension and therefore has no effect on the wheel's longevity. If you slam hard enough, you'll break a fork long before the wheel collapses.

 

5) There is free software available that calculates spoke length and it isn't rocket science. However, a correct length spoke in the hands of a skilled and novice  builder is not the same and the outcome won't be the same.

 

6) Cost. If there are sweatshops out there willing to build a wheel for R100 (or whatever you consider reasonable in this range), then so be it. Chances are that the builder doesn't value his own work and can't offer a guarantee on the job. I am sure there are anomolies to this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bustthesickness]

 

Thanks Johan, all good info this. Although I think the point is that a poorly built wheel, ridden HARD, will give way to big forces far more easily than gran's wheelchair (unless I push her down the stairs, which I often do)

 

To sum it up then, I had my wheel well built, for under R500, this year, locally, and it's still going strong. It didn't take 3 hours either. It took 1 hour.

 

Back to the topic then, and relating to your industry, I have found some wheelbuilders in the states that also guarantee their work, again, far better prices. Since you are in the game, what would your price be for a build? Use the specs I provided earlier. A Hope Pro II hub, 321 rim, DT spokes? My best quote so far has been just under 2 grand.

 

 

 

bustthesickness2008-12-01 08:52:04