HEADSET BEARING

[Slave]

Some of you may recall that I have  a problem with the headset bearing.

 

I changed it a while back and 500 k's later, the bottom race was pitted again.I think it was JB suggested that I tightened it too much.

 

So now I had a race specially made and put it in last night. Feels good again. The metal it was made from is somewhat harder than the one I got at LBS and I don't want to have the same problem again.

 

How do I "tension" it so it's not too tight? (Just want to be sure I don't have the same problem again in 500 k's time. At the mo' it is hand-tight and there is no play in the headset.

[AndreZA]

I think this video should help.

 

http://bicycletutor.com/overhaul-threaded-headset/

[droo]

Grab your front brake and hold the bike at the bottom headset bearing, with your hand on the fork crown and head tube, and rock the bike back and forth. Tighten the headset until it *just* stops any play, then tighten the stem bolts and turn the bars to feel if there's any binding. Repeat if necessary. Check again after the first ride as the new parts may still need to seat, creating more play.

 

 

 

Hope this helps

[AndreZA]

Grab your front brake and hold the bike at the bottom headset bearing' date=' with your hand on the fork crown and head tube, and rock the bike back and forth. Tighten the headset until it *just* stops any play, then tighten the stem bolts and turn the bars to feel if there's any binding. Repeat if necessary. Check again after the first ride as the new parts may still need to seat, creating more play.

Hope this helps [/quote']

 

he should have mentioned that he does not use a threadless system but the older quil stem and threaded form system.

 

 

[Johan Bornman]

You have good advice here, I can't add anything intelligent to that.

 

I would be interested in looking at the ruined headset though. Headsets fail in a very particular fashion and not within the mileage you got from it.

 

What type of headset is this? Old style with loose bearings or new integrated with cartridge bearings?

 

Photos?

 

Info?

 

PS - for the record, I don't think I suggested they failed 'cause they were too tight.

[droo]

Hmmm... Principle's the same, but replace "stem bolts" with "lockring", and add an hour or 2 to the expected time 'cos lockrings are a beast to set. Good luck!

[Slave]

Droo, that sounds like something usefull. I will check it out when I get home.

 

Mampara is correct. I have a 900 year old Peejou but you idea sounds reasonable.

 

@Mampara. Thanks for the link, but we have a clever mail marshall and I cannot get to the link.

[AndreZA]

This is the text that goes with the video

 

 

Required Tools

For this tutorial, you?ll need some waterproof grease, an old toothbrush and some cleaning solvent. If you have an older 1″ headset, you?ll need a set of 32mm spanner wrenches. Larger 1 1/8″ headsets usually require a set of 36mm spanner wrenches.

Brake Cable, Wheel and Stem Removal

Before you begin, you?ll need to disconnect the front brake and remove the brake cable from the lever. You?ll also need to remove the front wheel. To remove the stem, simply loosen the stem?s tightening bolt far enough so you can give it a light tap with a hammer. This will knock the inner wedge loose and allow the stem to slide up out of the fork.

Headset Disassembly

Now loosen and remove the locknut. Holding the fork in place with one hand, remove any spacers and unthread the adjusting race. Make sure to note how many spacers there are, and what order they came off. Gently slide the fork down and out of the frame. Make sure to make a note of which way the bearing races are facing before you remove them.

Headset Cleaning

Wipe clean all of the bearing races located on both the frame and fork as well as the upper threaded race. Inspect all four of the bearing races to make sure they are not grooved or pitted. If so you will likely have to replace the entire headset unit.

Thouroughly clean the ball bearing cages with your toothbrush and solvent. Then wipe them dry with a clean rag, and set them aside to air-dry. Inspect the ball cages to make sure they aren?t bent or worn. You can replace the cages without replacing the entire headset, but you?ll have to bring the old set to your local bike shop for proper sizing.

Headset Greasing

If all of your parts are ok, apply a layer of grease to all of the bearing races. Then install the ball cages the same way they came out and add another layer of grease on top of them.

Headset Assembly

Once the bearings are in place and fully greased, carefully slide the fork back into the frame and finger-tighten the adjusting race. Wipe off any excess grease that may have squirted out the sides. Slide the spacers back on and thread the locknut on finger tight.

Headset Adjustment

To adjust the headset, hold the lower adjusting race with a spanner wrench and use a second spanner to tighten locknut against the adjusting race.

To test the adjustment, check that the headset turns freely and check for play by rocking the fork back and forth in the frame. Re-adjust as needed until the bars spin freely and have no play.

Brake Cable, Wheel and Stem Installation

Reinstall the front wheel. Before reinstalling the stem, coat the shaft and wedge with a thin layer of grease. Then reinstall and tighten the handlebar stem, and reconnect the front brake.

Final Adjustment

Then re-test the headset adjustment by making sure the bars spin freely, and using your front brake, rock the bike back and forth to double check there is no play in the headset.

 

[Slave]

You have good advice here' date=' I can't add anything intelligent to that.

 

I would be interested in looking at the ruined headset though. Headsets fail in a very particular fashion and not within the mileage you got from it.

 

What type of headset is this? Old style with loose bearings or new integrated with cartridge bearings?

 

Photos?

 

Info?

 

PS - for the record, I don't think I suggested they failed 'cause they were too tight.

[/quote']

 

Thanks JB. It matters not who suggested this piece of info, just that it was suggested. I had an idea it was you, but let's leave the semantics at the door. They are not important.

 

Old style loose bearing, and races.

 

The "newly" replaced bearing race at the bottom was pitted (again) and quite badly. More so than the previous race that I replaced.

 

I think it got damaged when I had an off-road experince for several meters while out on a ride one day. The dude on front on me moved to the left and I was not paying the due attention to the bunch as we are moving pretty slowly waiting for others to regroup. So I hoppedthe bike off the road onto the gravel and the drop was about 6 to eight inches. From then onwards it was downhill pretty quickly. I thnik one small "pit" becomes progressively deeper with each subsequent ride.

 

End result. it is pitted in quite a few places and it was becoming increasingly difficult to ride the bike.

 

To post pics, you won't actually be able to sse the pit marks so the best suggestion is for me to get the part to you.

 

To be honest, it was not an expensive part when I got it at LBS so i have a big suspicion it was just a cheap Chinese part that was made from inferior material.

 

Since it was suggested that it may have been too tight, I just want to make sure that I don't repeat the possible mistake and have the same problem again.

 

With the harder metal that is now in place, I expect that it will last a fair bit longer.

[Johan Bornman]

 

Cut cut cut

 

Old style loose bearing' date=' and races.

 

The "newly" replaced bearing race at the bottom was pitted (again) and quite badly. More so than the previous race that I replaced.

 

I think it got damaged when I had an off-road experince for several meters while out on a ride one day. The dude on front on me moved to the left and I was not paying the due attention to the bunch as we are moving pretty slowly waiting for others to regroup. So I hoppedthe bike off the road onto the gravel and the drop was about 6 to eight inches. From then onwards it was downhill pretty quickly. I thnik one small "pit" becomes progressively deeper with each subsequent ride.

 

End result. it is pitted in quite a few places and it was becoming increasingly difficult to ride the bike.

 

To post pics, you won't actually be able to sse the pit marks so the best suggestion is for me to get the part to you.

 

To be honest, it was not an expensive part when I got it at LBS so i have a big suspicion it was just a cheap Chinese part that was made from inferior material.

 

Since it was suggested that it may have been too tight, I just want to make sure that I don't repeat the possible mistake and have the same problem again.

 

With the harder metal that is now in place, I expect that it will last a fair bit longer.

[/quote']

 

Bearings on headsets don't fail the way most people think they do.

 

They frail from fretting by dry metal on dry metal. This causes microwelds which break off due to road irregularities that transmit into the fork. They then gradually erode into milky opaque dents in the fore and aft positions.

 

A single off-road experience won't damage a bearing nor will along offroad experience. Bearings are stronger than the small forces a fork can transmit into them. Prove this to yourself with a hammer and an old bearing. Wear safety goggles and keep the dog inside the house during the experiment.

 

Tightening the bearing too much thus also cannot dent the bearing.

 

An impact dent is shiny whereas a fretting dent is opaque.

 

You mention pitting. This is another phenomena altogether and has to do with erosions into the metal where certain of the alloy's molecules are removed due to one or other chemical process. Pitting is irregular and ugly.

 

Flaking is more likely than pitting. That's why I'd like to have a look at the damaged surface to see which one of the many obscure methods of failure it was.

 

All bearings are approximately equally hard and hardness is therefore not the issue. It is design. Headset bearings cannot be designed like standard ball bearings and require some other clever tricks to make them last.

 

 

 

[Slave]

JB, you're a veritble mine of information.

 

Based on your description, I have to then say that the race is dented, not pitted. Whether or not this is caused by fretting or some other cause is not known. If you let me know where you're based, I will try and get the race to you so you can have a look at it.

 

I do also have to add, that I put far more grease on both the bearing and the race than was absolutely necessary. I know that this is not an absolute guarantee that it will prevent pitting, because the ball bearing will squeeze the grease out over time, prob'ly caused by the vibration from the road surface and the pressure of the ball against the race as only a very small area of both will be in contact at any one time.  But all the same, I used liberal amounts of grease.

 

It was / is good quality wheel bearing grease (Agip). I know that there is minimal turning of the bearings during riding thus preventing the grease from being spread over the surface.

 

What I do find confusing though, is that this is the only bike I have ever had that has this problem and not just once, but twice. So perhaps there is some other underlyinig problem that we have not identified.

 

I did not notice any flaking at all in either case when I replaced / repaired the bearing sets, so it's unlikely that the ball bearings themselves have failed. It is the bearing race and only the bottom one. (The one attached to the fork)

 

The dents themselves did not look shiny to me, but have to admit that I did not subject the race to that much inspection last night. I was more concerned with getting the job done. I have keptthe part though so both old "pitted / dented" bearing races are available for inspection.

 

I can relate to the flaking and pitting of balls and races as this is another problem area I have experienced with the bottom bracket races and balls.

 

I have seen the effects of flaking and pitting. Two weekends ago, I pulled out three balls that were flat on various areas of the three balls. Several years ago, I replaced the races on both sides of the bike because both cups were well worn and one was fairly severely pitted in one spot.

 

Whilst I have your attention, a friend suggested that I replace my ball bearing and cups with a more modern sealed crank. Is this possible on my rather antiquated peejou?

[Johan Bornman]

JB' date=' you're a veritble mine of information.

 

Based on your description, I have to then say that the race is dented, not pitted. Whether or not this is caused by fretting or some other cause is not known. If you let me know where you're based, I will try and get the race to you so you can have a look at it.

 Cut cut cut cut cut

 

[/quote']

 

Getting to the bottom of this could be interesting to some of the lurkers and posters here in the Tech forum. Even if the outcome is dull, it'll be miles better than another DSTV repeat of some oke with a beard and cockney accent cooking bulls balls in India.

 

I'll PM you my address.

 

As for the modern BB - absoltuely yes, do it. It'll fit and is the best upgrade to older cup and cone BBs that have no seals. They're called cartridge BBs and are sold in different sizes and threads.

 

Peejous had English threads I think (anyone say for sure?) but just removing it and taking it to the bike shop for an equivalent replacement should do the trick. We can do it when you come over if you want.

 

 

 

 

[Slave]

 

Getting to the bottom of this could be interesting to some of the lurkers and posters here in the Tech forum. Even if the outcome is dull' date=' it'll be miles better than another DSTV repeat of some oke with a beard and cockney accent cooking bulls balls in India.

 

 

[/quote']

 

ROFLMFAO.  hahahahaaaaarrhaaaarrr.