Fritz Pienaar denies uncompetitive behaviour

[Jules]

All I know is that cwc cycles went bananas with their chain prices....260 to 370 for a xtr chain ' date=' thats a big hike in a weeks time. I need to buy up the old stock soon before I cant cycle anymore due to the nutty prices out there![/quote']

 

 

 

Suggestion.....buy Deore chains???

 

 

 

Solomons had a special on KMC at 94.7 time. R99 for a 9spd chain. I bought six.

[porky]

 

retailers got together to discuss raising margins unilaterally.

 

Thats a crime. or do we need another 30 pages to spell it out again...?

 

The question is are there mitigating circumstances.

 

 

GoLefty

 

In 2007 Oakley paid an R 212 000 admission of guilt fine for fixing prices at retailers in South Africa.

 

Too many good people are being hurt by what is being posted on this forum. Human beings err and I believe that an error was made in arranging this meeting. Even though Probike did not agree with the meeting we still did attend the meeting which in hindsight is also an error.

 

The intention of the meeting was incorrect, but I am prepared to sign an affidavit that I am not aware of any pricing in the bicycle industry actually being affected and I have many people in the industry from who I can gather this proof.

 

 

I am with you and hear your view, howver I take a slightly more "hard line approach" - these are not naive kids we are talking about here, these are mature adult businessmen who have been around for quite a long time, it is incumbent on them to KNOW what is allowed and what is not.

 

I cannot and will not accept they were ignorant of the law here.

 

My profession is governed by a body, should I step out of line and I am reported, I face a fine, suspension from duty or at worst I could be prohibited from practising for up to three years.

 

I can also be sued in a court of law.

 

What makes me any differant to the businessmen in this affair??

 

I find it rather flimsy and a bit of an insult to my intellegence to hear the argument "we didnt know this meeting was illegal" - sorry that is not an excuse, - it was YOUR DUTY to know.!

 

To me, it really dos not matter if the suggested price increases from the meeting were implimented or not - there was clear INTENTION here and that alone is sufficient for me to withdraw my support for ALL of the shops concerned.

 

porky2009-03-20 08:31:55

[STEEL Niner]

Exactly, and with all this attention and public knowledge we will never know if the intentions would have migrated into practice, but the fact is; the intention was clear and damaging enough.... we hope.

 

off to go ride and visit my favourite LBS who was not on the list. Mikes Bikes!

[Tumbleweed]

ok, ok, enough. what would make you happy? they screwed up. they're facing up to it the best way they can. what sort of punishment would appease you all?

[Napalm]

 

ok' date=' ok, enough. what would make you happy? they screwed up. they're facing up to it the best way they can. what sort of punishment would appease you all?[/quote']

 

Burning at the stake. But then again I'm a bastard

 

[Tumbleweed]

Actually it would be the moral high ground to buy Raleigh. He's been the first to admit that he made a mistake' date=' and he has noted that he attended the meeting reluctantly and did not agree with the proposal for higher margins.

 

 

 

If the topic of this thread is to be believed, Fritz vigorously denies any wrongdoing. I'd argue, however, that his e-mail is a smoking gun.

 

 

 

The mature response, in my opinion, would be something along the lines of what Brandon has said. "Yes, we made a mistake. We're sorry. Despite our meeting, there has not been any coordinated price increase and hence consumers are unaffected. We'll co-operate entirely with the Commission. We'll accept any sanction that is handed down."

 

 

 

Now wouldn't that be refreshing? If Fritz was my LBS, I'd be the first oke through the door the next day. [/quote']

 

 

 

but one e-mail doesn't tell the whole story. what led to the email? there are two fall guys in this story. we crucify two people on the only couple of documents available. i know i've played a part in this, but isn't it time to sit back and let justice be done? can we not wait for the outcome?

[Sammajoor]

 

ok' date=' ok, enough. what would make you happy? they screwed up. they're facing up to it the best way they can. what sort of punishment would appease you all?[/quote']

 

Holy..

 

That is what is getting to me.  Yes I flamed and both Andrew and Fritz pm'd and mailed me asking me to contact them, which I did.

 

Both apologized and said that in hind sight what they did was wrong.  I accepted both or their apologies.

 

What they did was wrong.   BUT if there is one person on this hub, who was not screwed up or somewhere made a mistake and then asked for forgiveness, they can feel free to slang and bay for blood.

 

I for one am keeping my trap shut or my grubby paws of the keyboard.  A lot of shop owners went to the meeting and are conspicuous in their silence.  They are now playing dumb and not saying a word.   Gentlemen if you were their,  own up and say you are sorry.  Be honourable, do the right thing.   Someday your name will come up and then you will hear it

 

[Tumbleweed]

 

ok' date=' ok, enough. what would make you happy? they screwed up. they're facing up to it the best way they can. what sort of punishment would appease you all?[/quote']Burning at the stake. But then again I'm a bastard

 

 

 

clearly

 

 

 

guys, nothing we say here really adds much to the matter at hand. it's being handled by the authorities. let's give it a rest.

[Jules]

Actually it would be the moral high ground to buy Raleigh. He's been the first to admit that he made a mistake' date=' and he has noted that he attended the meeting reluctantly and did not agree with the proposal for higher margins.

 

 

 

If the topic of this thread is to be believed, Fritz vigorously denies any wrongdoing. I'd argue, however, that his e-mail is a smoking gun.

 

 

 

The mature response, in my opinion, would be something along the lines of what Brandon has said. "Yes, we made a mistake. We're sorry. Despite our meeting, there has not been any coordinated price increase and hence consumers are unaffected. We'll co-operate entirely with the Commission. We'll accept any sanction that is handed down."

 

 

 

Now wouldn't that be refreshing? If Fritz was my LBS, I'd be the first oke through the door the next day. [/quote']

 

 

 

but one e-mail doesn't tell the whole story. what led to the email? there are two fall guys in this story. we crucify two people on the only couple of documents available. i know i've played a part in this, but isn't it time to sit back and let justice be done? can we not wait for the outcome?

 

 

 

I was merely suggesting an alternative response in the face of smoking-gun evidence. The point was made that the responses of Brandon and Summit have been to their credit. Something similar from the "two fall guys" would do them a world of good. Obviously nobody is perfect and we all make mistakes. But admit them, when busted, and you'll get a better reception in the court of public opinion.

[jagwil]

I agree with holy and despite the fact that Jules seems to disagree with me (and he is entitled to do so) I will say again what I said earlier today.

I have modified my original statement slightly.

I will also repeat what I said earlier on this thread or on one of the various other threads.

   It amazes me to see how quick some hubbers are to act as prosecutor, Judge and executioner and to assume that these guys are guilty. Thereafter to proceed to crucify them publicly.

Someone also recently hinted at the following or something along these lines:

 Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. . 

I am not an overly religious person but I think that this does apply here.

 

 

 

Hey guys ' date=' this is now just becoming repetitive.

 

Don't you think you have done enough mudslinging and character assassination for now.

 

ENOUGH ALREADY ! 

 

Thirty pages and not much (nothing) new since about page ten.Just rehash upon rehash.

 

[/quote']

 

 

[BendeBeer]

I think that Brandon and GoLefty have taken this discussion forward quite a bit actually. BendeBeer2009-03-20 09:23:58

[jagwil]

Possibly, but most of the others are just rehashing and crucifying.  jagwil2009-03-20 09:31:38

[Tumbleweed]

Actually it would be the moral high ground to buy Raleigh. He's been the first to admit that he made a mistake' date=' and he has noted that he attended the meeting reluctantly and did not agree with the proposal for higher margins.

 

 

 

If the topic of this thread is to be believed, Fritz vigorously denies any wrongdoing. I'd argue, however, that his e-mail is a smoking gun.

 

 

 

The mature response, in my opinion, would be something along the lines of what Brandon has said. "Yes, we made a mistake. We're sorry. Despite our meeting, there has not been any coordinated price increase and hence consumers are unaffected. We'll co-operate entirely with the Commission. We'll accept any sanction that is handed down."

 

 

 

Now wouldn't that be refreshing? If Fritz was my LBS, I'd be the first oke through the door the next day. [/quote']

 

 

 

but one e-mail doesn't tell the whole story. what led to the email? there are two fall guys in this story. we crucify two people on the only couple of documents available. i know i've played a part in this, but isn't it time to sit back and let justice be done? can we not wait for the outcome?

 

 

 

I was merely suggesting an alternative response in the face of smoking-gun evidence. The point was made that the responses of Brandon and Summit have been to their credit. Something similar from the "two fall guys" would do them a world of good. Obviously nobody is perfect and we all make mistakes. But admit them, when busted, and you'll get a better reception in the court of public opinion.

 

 

 

i think you know we're on the same page

[Tumbleweed]

Possibly' date=' but most of the others are just rehashing and crucifying.? [/quote']

 

 

 

that's what i take issue with...

[jagwil]

Do you agree that most are just rehashing and crucifying.

[Sammajoor]

 

I agree with holy and despite the fact that Jules seems to disagree with me (and he is entitled to do so) I will say again what I said earlier today.

I have modified my original statement slightly.

I will also repeat what I said earlier on this thread or on one of the various other threads.

   It amazes me to see how quick some hubbers are to act as prosecutor' date=' Judge and executioner and to assume that these guys are guilty. Thereafter to proceed to crucify them publicly.

Someone also recently hinted at the following or something along these lines:

 Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. . 

I am not an overly religious person but I think that this does apply here.

 

 

 

Hey guys , this is now just becoming repetitive.

 

Don't you think you have done enough mudslinging and character assassination for now.

 

ENOUGH ALREADY ! 

 

Thirty pages and not much (nothing) new since about page ten.Just rehash upon rehash.

 

 

Jagwil

 

I did not hint, I said it openly.  I have made many mistakes in my life.  The next one I made was to make an emotional posting about the whole affair.  And for that I apologized, both here on the open forum and to Andrew and Fritz.

 

We are all here because we are passionate and emotional about cycling.  We tend to take it a little further than that though.