racman Posted March 21, 2009 Posted March 21, 2009 If we had to treat them like the idiots they now claim to be; they would be highly offended and insulted ..... Ok, I've said my sayracman2009-03-21 05:38:23
GoLefty!! Posted March 21, 2009 Posted March 21, 2009 KDEE, I salute your stand for the Whistleblowers. I feel very strongly that the culture we have in SA of hanging hte whistleblower is largely responsible for a lack of change in mindsets in business and society. Wrong is wrong. I am not in favour of the tactics employed by Probike against Silverback, however if the tactic employed by Silverback against Probike is as I suspect, then Silverback deserved what they got. It does not affect me, or you and if two businesses want to engage in a price war, hey so be it. There are other brands out there to chose from. hence the price fixing fiasco is far more impactful and hence deserves far more attention. I favour brandon's suggestion simply because I know that there are many LBS who opposed the Price fixing and I would hate to see them burn with the guilty parties simply by association through industry. It's like labelling the entire fuels industry as price fixers when in reality only a few participated. Thats my point, don't burn the innocent. By so doing we turn them into participants and then we all loose
BaieSukkel Posted March 21, 2009 Posted March 21, 2009 Please don't fine these shops! That willonly lead to Joe Public having to pay even more when shopping there, to make up for the losses due to fines. No. Since they wanted to fix prices, that should be their punnishment. Fix ALL the prices in their shops for two years - NO price increase allowed! Even if the wholesale prices do. Even if they have overhead increases. They will then have the chance to rebuild their customer confidence, since they will have the lowest prices in town!
KDEE Posted March 21, 2009 Posted March 21, 2009 KDEE' date=' I salute your stand for the Whistleblowers. I feel very strongly that the culture we have in SA of hanging hte whistleblower is largely responsible for a lack of change in mindsets in business and society. Wrong is wrong. I am not in favour of the tactics employed by Probike against Silverback, however if the tactic employed by Silverback against Probike is as I suspect, then Silverback deserved what they got. It does not affect me, or you and if two businesses want to engage in a price war, hey so be it. There are other brands out there to chose from. hence the price fixing fiasco is far more impactful and hence deserves far more attention. I favour brandon's suggestion simply because I know that there are many LBS who opposed the Price fixing and I would hate to see them burn with the guilty parties simply by association through industry. It's like labelling the entire fuels industry as price fixers when in reality only a few participated. Thats my point, don't burn the innocent. By so doing we turn them into participants and then we all loose[/quote'] Agreed GoLefty, I don't think the innocent will suffer. In fact I believe that the guilty will get a warning this time around. The public outrage over this is what warms my heart, much more than any fine will. For once, powerful players in the industry have to defend themselves publicly. This issue is now far too big and public to be swept under the carpet. My point as regards the Probike email was not out of concern for Silverback, but to show what some suppliers and shops believe they are capable of. That email from Probike spoke volumes for me.. and certainly undid, for me, the posted email from Brandon to Fritz. I cannot abide bullies, in any form. If Silverback did something wrong, there are avenues to address. In fact Probike is so big, they could have laughed it of. Nevertheless, that issue is not my concern, Im sure Silverback can look after themselves. Its the outright threat to use the precieved power that incensed me and led me to wonder how else they use that power vis a vis a Lbs.. I repeat my point from earlier..... we will all have been poorer if those infamous minutes and email were not published for all to see. Inaccurate minutes or not, the direct quote attributed to one or two at the meeting cannot be denied. The intention was to raise margins and RRP. Shops that did not conform would be punished by wholesalers. Thats attempted collusion by some and threatened abusive behavior. Its the threat and abusive behaviour that gets to me. Not so much the attempted price collusion. Mainly because I dont believe that the collusion would have worked. If some here cannot see that, then I give up.KDEE2009-03-21 09:18:05
Tumbleweed Posted March 21, 2009 Posted March 21, 2009 KDEE' date=' I salute your stand for the Whistleblowers. I feel very strongly that the culture we have in SA of hanging hte whistleblower is largely responsible for a lack of change in mindsets in business and society. [/quote'] sorry, i'm not with you on this one. as one of the "whistleblowers" i don't feel i've been hanged. sure, i took some serious flak at the time i posted the minutes and made the mistake of posting the details of the attendance register. however, as i posted earlier on this thread, andrew, for one, said that, he would have done the same with the info i became privy to if he was in the same position as me.
Free Posted March 22, 2009 Posted March 22, 2009 and we are going to keep their life tough by doing the exact same thing' date=' responding to their marketing to dealers and selling some product below our cost. [/quote'] Selling your product below cost to be competitive is really not a good sign. Im sure alot of the other brands that are actually able to sell their bikes and make money are laughing at you guys.
KDEE Posted March 22, 2009 Posted March 22, 2009 KDEE' date=' I salute your stand for the Whistleblowers. I feel very strongly that the culture we have in SA of hanging hte whistleblower is largely responsible for a lack of change in mindsets in business and society. [/quote'] sorry, i'm not with you on this one. as one of the "whistleblowers" i don't feel i've been hanged. sure, i took some serious flak at the time i posted the minutes and made the mistake of posting the details of the attendance register. however, as i posted earlier on this thread, andrew, for one, said that, he would have done the same with the info i became privy to if he was in the same position as me. Holy, apologies if you felt I was referring to you as one of the whistle blowers. Didn't mean to to imply that you were an insider exposing these issues. They were public at the time and anyone could have got them ( minutes ). Was more alluding to the fact that we need whistle blowers in this country to expose all the stuff that that so many would love to hide... in all facets of public, political, commercial and sometimes and private life.
Tumbleweed Posted March 22, 2009 Posted March 22, 2009 KDEE' date=' I salute your stand for the Whistleblowers. I feel very strongly that the culture we have in SA of hanging hte whistleblower is largely responsible for a lack of change in mindsets in business and society. [/quote'] sorry, i'm not with you on this one. as one of the "whistleblowers" i don't feel i've been hanged. sure, i took some serious flak at the time i posted the minutes and made the mistake of posting the details of the attendance register. however, as i posted earlier on this thread, andrew, for one, said that, he would have done the same with the info i became privy to if he was in the same position as me. Holy, apologies if you felt I was referring to you as one of the whistle blowers. Didn't mean to to imply that you were an insider exposing these issues. They were public at the time and anyone could have got them ( minutes ).Was more alluding to the fact that we need whistle blowers in this country to expose all the stuff that that so many would love to hide... in all facets of public, political, commercial and sometimes and private life. no offence taken. i was just trying to say that i don't feel i have been hanged. i haven't suffered from this. i don't want to over-exaggerate the fallout anyone who has made this info public has suffered. just for the record, i am not really an industry insider. i have some ties to the industry, but it is not my bread and butter. i am a journalist by trade.
racman Posted March 22, 2009 Posted March 22, 2009 I thought journalism was your hobby and posting on the hub was your trade !!!
Tumbleweed Posted March 22, 2009 Posted March 22, 2009 I thought journalism was your hobby and posting on the hub was your trade !!! you got me pegged, mate!
Tumbleweed Posted March 22, 2009 Posted March 22, 2009 now to get back to the topic...would you be happy with an admission of guilt, and a fine?holy roller2009-03-22 08:02:48
porky Posted March 22, 2009 Posted March 22, 2009 now to back to the topic...would you be happy with an admission of guilt' date=' and a fine?[/quote'] Yes, ..................but I still wont support them again.!
Tumbleweed Posted March 22, 2009 Posted March 22, 2009 now to back to the topic...would you be happy with an admission of guilt' date=' and a fine?[/quote'] ? Yes, ..................but I still wont support them again.! fair enough.
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