Schwynn Posted April 15, 2009 Share Nothing can be "brand new" except if it is a dealer selling the stuff. It must rather be "as good as new" or "never used". People think the general scuff marks that appears on levers' date=' cranks and pedals can be classified as "like new". Having done 50km on something does not classify it as "new". Alot could have happened on that ride. The seller should refund money and shipping costs back to him/her if the buyer is not happy.[/quote'] In all honesty I think that should be included in the discussion between seller and buyer before you pay. I sold some Ultegra stuff to a fellow hubber and he was quite surprised to see that the original plastic covering was still on all the components. My add read, "Brand New". In my opinion the stuff was brand new. I know I am not a retailer for bicycle spares and therefore can't guarantee any breakages, but the product has never been used. So the term "unused" comes to mind. I also think that it is pretty obvious that stuff being sold by hubbers carries no guarantee, therefore the prices are almost 50% lower than buying in a shop. You can buy stuff at some dealers for a lot cheaper if you don't want a guarantee, did you know that?Schwynn2009-04-15 23:50:28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skye Posted April 15, 2009 Share In all honesty I think that should be included in the discussion between seller and buyer before you pay. I sold some Ultegra stuff to a fellow hubber and he was quite surprised to see that the original plastic covering was still on all the components. My add read, "Brand New". In my opinion the stuff was brand new. I know I am not a retailer for bicycle spares and therefore can't guarantee any breakages, but the product has never been used. So the term "unused" comes to mind. Schwynn thank's so much for sharing your information with us so early in the morning. On behalf of all hubbers, we would just like to say we all feel SO much closer to you NOW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schwynn Posted April 15, 2009 Share Skye for you I kill the bull, for your sister I kill both, you and the bull!! Artificial Intelligence Is No Match For Natural Stupidity...... Where did you get my autobiography? Schwynn2009-04-15 23:56:58 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keith Posted April 15, 2009 Share Mampara I fully agree with you. Guys why don't we have a system whereby the definition of 'new' can be defined. Like: 'Brand New': Never been used and still in plastic covering.'New': Has been opened but used only once.'Like New': Recently bought and used but in very good condition.'Great Condition': Used but very well looked after. Hubbers can refer to these definitions when selling a product. What you guys think? keith2009-04-15 23:57:38 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinV Posted April 15, 2009 Share Mampara I fully agree with you. Guys why don't we have a system whereby the definition of 'new' can be defined. Like: 'Brand New': Never been used and still in plastic covering.'New': Has beed opened but used only once.'Like New': Recently bought and used but in very good condition.'Great Condition': Used but very well looked after. Hubbers can refer to these definitions when selling a product. What you guys think? Still open to interpretation in my opinion. "Used only once" could be around the block or for one 100km ride through mud, and once used it's no longer new.If it's advertised as new then it should be unused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keith Posted April 16, 2009 Share Cool Kevin I see what you saying. So a more detailed table perhaps, covering all bases and defintions? Therefore if an item is advertised, a buyer can refer to it and know what they should be expecting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charvel Posted April 16, 2009 Share Cool Kevin I see what you saying. So a more detailed table perhaps' date=' covering all bases and defintions? Therefore if an item is advertised, a buyer can refer to it and know what they should be expecting.[/quote'] Good idea. But from my limited experience here on the hub, to get all hubbers to agree on the classifications might be quite a daunting task On a serious note, we definitely need a classification system to avoid "false advertising" and "buyer's remorse". How should we do it? Do we tackle each classification at a time starting with "Brand New" until we get to "Old and used"? Charvel2009-04-16 00:09:17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaLoCo Posted April 16, 2009 Share Thankfully this kind of nonsense is still very rare here, but I agree, every time someone gets done in it puts a questionmark on the integrity of all the sellers I am forever in the market for secondhand goodies, as my income does not allow me anything more, so I would appreciate a good rating system. I now have to check the amount of posts, and all that could mean is the guy is a k*k prater, or I might miss out on a great deal from a brand new hubber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiBones Posted April 16, 2009 Share Flogging a dead horse! It's either new or not.http://www.askoxford.com/images/phase_2/spc.gifhttp://www.askoxford.com/images/interface/concise_oed.gifhttp://www.oup.co.uk/images/covers/0-19-861022-X.gif new ? adjective 1 not existing before; made, introduced, or discovered recently or now for the first time. 2 not previously used or owned. 3 (often new to) seen, experienced, or acquired recently or now for the first time. 4 (new to/at) inexperienced at or unaccustomed to. 5 reinvigorated, restored, or reformed. 6 (in place names) discovered or founded later than and named after. From askoxford.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinV Posted April 16, 2009 Share I think we just got the book thrown at us! I reckon it will be near impossible to get everyone to agree. As far as I am concerned, sellers must simply be honest about amount of use (if any) and condition with regard to scratches, etc. Pics are obviously important to show this. If people are dishonest, they must be named so that others don't get misled in future.We have threads naming good and bad sellers, this seems to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaLoCo Posted April 16, 2009 Share Flogging a dead horse! It's either new or not.http://www.askoxford.com/images/phase_2/spc.gifhttp://www.askoxford.com/images/interface/concise_oed.gif http://www.oup.co.uk/images/covers/0-19-861022-X.gif new ? adjective 1 not existing before; made' date=' introduced, or discovered recently or now for the first time. 2 not previously used or owned. 3 (often new to) seen, experienced, or acquired recently or now for the first time. 4 (new to/at) inexperienced at or unaccustomed to. 5 reinvigorated, restored, or reformed. 6 (in place names) discovered or founded later than and named after. From askoxford.com[/quote'] This actually troubles the clarity, see 5 reinvigorated, restored, or reformed. Even Oxford causes something simple to become a quagmire of interpretation By this interpretation the refurbished BB could be called new Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cycle Fan Posted April 16, 2009 Share I'm all for the second hand market and think the Hub is a fantastic forum to find really good bargains. That being said, a rating system would be great. I've bought a number of items off eBay over the years and their feedback system is fantastic. Before you buy, you can check the sellers feedback and rating and make an informed decision about your purchase. In my recent purchase, I'd be able to leave feedback and comment on my transaction which would affect the sellers future feedback and dealings on the Hub. If you're serious about doing business on the hub, you'll value your rating and ensure that your feedback, service and products are all inline. Then this sort of thing with products described as 'new' won't happen. And if it does, at least there'll be some sort of recourse with negative feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keith Posted April 16, 2009 Share Cyclefan I understand what you saying and we need admin to either sort out a rating system or definitions table because too many times I've heard about unhappy fellow hubbers. Yeah, to play devils advocate you need to do thorough research before you buy something, but sellers also need to be honest. To make the hub a better, happier, safer place to buy and sell we need a serious procedure to be followed, or we will continue to here these unhappy stories. 'Name and Shame' is all well and good, but it doesn't prevent the problem. It is not a solution, it is a reaction to the bad already done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cycle Fan Posted April 16, 2009 Share 'Name and Shame' is all well and good' date=' but it doesn't prevent the problem. It is not a solution, it is a reaction to the bad already done.[/quote'] I really don't want to get into the 'Name & Shame' scenario. It really doesn't do much good. Just wish that people would be honest up front instead of trying to be clever about what condition they think their item is in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keith Posted April 16, 2009 Share Money has a lot to do with it- the more they can get in the bank for their 'new' item the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiBones Posted April 16, 2009 Share How about simply a post saying"I am planning on buying a part from Mr X, Does anyone have any comments for me?" or I am planning on selling a part to Mr Y, Does anyone have any comments for me?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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