Doctors on the trail

[Face Plant]

you missing the point sydd ! how many ALS medics have you seen at MTB races? the point is it is much better to have a qualified doctor be it a GP or a EMT specialist or for that matter a ALS medic on the trials than your average ambulance driver and i mean that with the most respect to the ambulance drivers out there

[Hog_]

As an example: On Sunday a guy dislocated his shoulder' date=' within 20 - 30 minutes I had got to him, administered Morphine and relocated the shoulder joint right there on the side of the trail.[/quote']

 

 

 

Morphine and MTBing is the bestest idea EVER!

 

 

 

Seriously though, I think it's a great idea to have Docs riding. Last time I dislocated my shoulder the hospital took X-rays from the front only and sent me home with a 'sprained AC joint'. I only had the shoulder set 2 days later. Would have been awesome if there was someone on the trail that could have helped me.

 

 

 

Do you think one could clock it as a consultation and charge it to the medical aid?

 

 

 

 

[smitvanzyl]

 

IMO most important would be to get somebody with experience.

 

You can pay a lot for a doctor, but without trauma experience he would not be better than an experienced ALS/ATLS paramedicsmitvanzyl2009-11-03 06:33:42

[SABC]

The idea behind this is not to attack any one division of medical help. The idea was to see if people are in fact interested in getting medical treatment out on the course. The major problem with the medical society in general is that when someone arrives at an accident and tries to help it turns into a pissing contest. <?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

The majority of people feel that it would in fact be a good thing to have trained personnel out there. As a doctor I don?t mind if it is a paramedic (the problem here is there are far fewer paramedics in the country than doctors) who gets to me first, I just want someone there asap. There is always going to be a time lag between getting injured and getting treatment, such is the nature of the sport. The bottom line is that the more people are out there that can treat, the less time will pass before treatment is given.

 

If this concept were to gain momentum, it could get to the stage that only ATLS and ACLS doctors be allowed to assist, but it would involve making a network of these people.

 

No one should be trying to throw mud at any other profession here. We should instead be thinking of what is in fact best for the guy on the floor.

[smitvanzyl]

Post edited - I would appreciate help = if they can offer more than basic first aid which should be nearly compulsory for all mountainbikers

[JarradVZ]

And I'm not sure I understand where you say  they are hesitant to administer because they have little experience? Rubbish! If you're an ALS thats what you've trained to do and its in your scope of practice. You know the drugs upside down inside out and are fully aware of dosages' date=' contra indications, indications, administration methods. The drugs on their protocol are used by them on a regular basis and if you believe that that is what the patient needs under the circumstances then you will treat them to the best of your ability. Correct? I think you need to be a bit more responsible in what you're saying, because people will take what you are saying as absolute truth and have no trust in a Paramedic.[/quote']

 

Easy there Sydd!

I'm not attacking anyone. ALS boys are jacked, I know that. The problem is that there was only one of them at the race, he was on a quad and so could not get to some of the places we could.

I would agree that I would rather have an ALS than a random GP for most of the emergencies on the trail. But I'm not talking about random GPs, I'm talking about well qualified guys who have a passion for the sport themselves and therefore a good knowledge of the common emergencies in MTB races.

Be careful about telling me to be more responsible, I'm certainly not putting paramedics down - especially the ALS guys.

[Regard]

Hi TimHenman

I know u you are!

I will send BrunoMarino to go give you a good klap there in Rustenburg for causing crap on the hub!()

(p.s. try and figure this one)

[SABC]

I am not sure how many full paramedics exist in SA but I would be surprised if it is even as many as twenty. Just food for thought. It would be a lot easier to get ATLS doctors.

[nyathi]

I think its a super good idea, have the docs leave in intervals and ride with different groups in the race/event.

 

GOOD IDEA!

[leet22]

If they are fully qualified paramedics they should be able to cope with anything they come across. They are the ones in the field saving lives everyday. If some of the help you have recived was bad/worng etc it may be they were ambulance drivers only not medics. How may of these guys get asked for their qualifications when they arrive at the race? could be some dodgy company is sending out drivers as medics.  Put the doc a 250 off road, will be there in a wink.

 

 

I take my hat off to all the medics, drivers, fireman, doctors nurses and police that have to mop up after us after we fall

[Sydd]

Thanks Tim H, thats a better way of putting it. I still just feel that this is a difficult forum to have a discussion like this, where most lay-people won't be able to differentiate between their opinion of "an ambulance driver" and what is actually a well qualified medical practitioner. Perhaps then "doctors on bikes" supported by at least a network of BAAs and AEAs who are experienced, by the nature of their protocol if they can't do a proper primary assessment and immobilisations as precautions then they shouldn't have a licence.

 

I'm afraid a lot of the opinions we've seen here may have been from people who've been assisted by first aiders who don't have the appropriate trauma experience, because the major injuries you see at races boil down to traumas.

 

And yes, a Dr, but only if its a trauma doctor.

 

And with reference to someone's comment of 20 qualified paramedics in SA, I beg to differ. I think perhaps with the incentive of proper pay and the pleasant working environment of being in the bush, some of the MANY MANY qualified medics who were operational for short periods before going to work in more pleasant, well paid environments, may just re-emerge and use their qualifications. ( and to cover myself before being flamed, those who have maintained their qualifications and have accumulated their cpd points like good eggs)

[spaso9]

wicked idea!!! do it...

 

 

 

and cant believe tim henman does mtb!! professional tennis and mtb, and a doctor... talented guy.

[JarradVZ]

Whatever Spaso, go find a waterpolo forum or something.

[WOFT]

I think a lot of confusion comes about from lay people not knowing that most ambulance personel are not paramedics. However, they all dress the same.

 

you get Basic life support (BLS/BAA), Intermediate life support (ILS/AEA) and Advanced life support (ALS/paramedic). only the ALS guys are true "paramedics".

 

BLS is a 5 week course. these guys can patch you up and take you to hospital, but cannot admister drugs (aside from Oxygen and laughing gas).

 

ILS is a scourse over several months. they are inbetween ALS and BLS, and can administer certain drugs and more invasive procedures, like putting up drips. BLS and ALS make up the majority of the ambulance service.

 

Paramedics are highly qualified practitioners, having studied for at least 3 years, and being VERY experienced. they have a lot of emergency drugs at their disposal, and are very skilled at using them. They bare mostly seen in the smaller, faster "response cars" rather than the code 10 ambulances. At an accident outside of a hospital, I would rather be treated by a paramedic than a GP.

 

[PS: I have oversimplified what these guys can do to illustrate the differences. I'm not knocking their qualifications or their importance, especially the BLS guys]

 

I love the idea of doctors riding with the groups, and would be equally happy with a paramedic riding there. It wuold be interesting to compare the response time of the biking doc if he/she were furthest away from the injury, to the reponse time of the non-racing medics/docs.

 

Tim, what kind of equipment/drugs are you carrying? is it general first aid stuff like dressings, or more the drug spectrum?