Duties on CRC with 10% discount

[LazyTrailRider]

I've got an incoming CRC order with a value of R3964.86, components only (fork, stem, seatpost etc) so no duties-attracting stuff. It was ordered during the Christmas sale, so everything was -10%. The amount above is after this discount.

 

Cape Mail phoned this morning to let me know it's being delivered, the fee payable being R698.72. That seems way too high, it's 17.6% instead of the usual 15% or so (VAT + handling).

 

What I'm thinking is that they're adding VAT onto each line item at its pre-discount price, because the CRC invoice - at least on the site - only calculates the discount on the total.

 

Is this legally correct and can they do this? Has anyone else experienced this?

[Mongoose!]

Thank goodness I did not ordered that Beone Rosso frame at R7024

Edited December 20, 2010 by Mongoose!

[Nimby]

It happened to me on the order I received last week. Not sure how to claim the cash back though. Perhaps we shoudl petition CRC to deduct the discount on a line-by-line basis?

[AndreZA]

It depends on what the exchange rate is when the PO work out the Vat to be payed. But I don't think it is an extra 2%.

[LazyTrailRider]

It happened to me on the order I received last week. Not sure how to claim the cash back though. Perhaps we shoudl petition CRC to deduct the discount on a line-by-line basis?

 

OK, so that is what is happening.

 

CRC is not impressing me at the moment. First, they send the wrong fork (1.5" instead of 1 1/8"), which had to be sent back at a cost of R900 (I know!) and will only be refunded (luckily this return shipping also) once they put it back into stock, and now this. Nevermind the fact that the VAT paid on the wrong fork can't be claimed back either!

Edited December 20, 2010 by Martin Hattingh

[LazyTrailRider]

Spoke to the SAPO guy when he arrived. CRC only stated the pre-discount total on the "Commercial Invoice" (with no mention of the discount), but the Parcelforce invoice stated the post-discount amount. Customs, as one would expect, then used the piece of paper with the highest value...

 

Sent him back to the hub, and have now asked CRC to send me a correct invoice showing the amount I actually *paid*. Then have to provide customs with this new invoice and get them to re-assess. Argh!

[Nimby]

Spoke to the SAPO guy when he arrived. CRC only stated the pre-discount total on the "Commercial Invoice" (with no mention of the discount), but the Parcelforce invoice stated the post-discount amount. Customs, as one would expect, then used the piece of paper with the highest value...

 

Sent him back to the hub, and have now asked CRC to send me a correct invoice showing the amount I actually *paid*. Then have to provide customs with this new invoice and get them to re-assess. Argh!

 

What a mare! The amount of "extra" duty I paid isn't worth the hassle of trying to adjust and claim back - typical SARS

[Starry nights]

Spoke to the SAPO guy when he arrived. CRC only stated the pre-discount total on the "Commercial Invoice" (with no mention of the discount), but the Parcelforce invoice stated the post-discount amount. Customs, as one would expect, then used the piece of paper with the highest value...

 

Sent him back to the hub, and have now asked CRC to send me a correct invoice showing the amount I actually *paid*. Then have to provide customs with this new invoice and get them to re-assess. Argh!

 

Is all this hassle worth the R100 you will get back? I understand it may be a matter of pricipal but time is money too.

[LazyTrailRider]

Is all this hassle worth the R100 you will get back? I understand it may be a matter of pricipal but time is money too.

 

I have to admit it was very tempting, but here's the thing:

 

1) It's only R250 extra, *but* the incorrect fork returned already cost R500 in VAT paid which I somehow don't think will easily be refunded... So that's R750 pretty much wasted, so to try to minimise it is percentage-wise a sensible thing.

 

2) My time is worth R700/hour, but it's close to holiday time, so I'm doing proactive stuff at the moment and less urgently-busy, so I can afford to spend the time to some extent.

 

3) Giving CRC grief about an incorrect invoice (as opposed to just letting it be) will add to someone's annoyance there and could quite possibly prevent them from making the mistake again, thus saving someone else the hassle. So the system (and thus I) benefit overall.

[rock]

only cerstain types of discounts are deductable for duty purposes (not all) so it doesnt really matter what you paid for the goods its what the goods are worth. If I receive a bike from an international sponsor and pay nothing fo it, I'm still liable for ther duty and vat based on the market value of the bike......

[AndreZA]

I'm still liable for ther duty and vat based on the market value of the bike......

 

South African value or overseas value? If they choose SA values then there is no point in importing anything.

[LazyTrailRider]

only cerstain types of discounts are deductable for duty purposes (not all) so it doesnt really matter what you paid for the goods its what the goods are worth. If I receive a bike from an international sponsor and pay nothing fo it, I'm still liable for ther duty and vat based on the market value of the bike......

 

Everything was duty-free, do you know if this applies to VAT as well? Logically, I hear you, it's related to market value. But then again, what is market value? On CRC, if something is one of those "flood damage" sale items, its base price will be R100, without even taking any additional discounts into account (regardless whether these discounts are calculated pre-or-post totalling of the order). For example, some stuff on CRC is always cheap (regardless of sales or not) and sold below RRP, does that mean that one should always pay that VAT on what the item's RRP is? Who then defines the actual value of the item? It becomes very subjective, and that's where customs @#$s us and grabs whatever they can.

Edited December 20, 2010 by Martin Hattingh

[LazyTrailRider]

OK, so I spoke to the customs guy at CapeMail, as long as I can prove the actual cost (with a credit card statement, for example), they'll adjust the VAT to reflect that. So will head there tomorrow and pick the package up.

 

Silly CRC.

[xdoomx]

Im surprised noones picked up on this before, but I see you guys struggling here with duties and values..

 

The trick obviously is to get the goods marked/invoiced as a low value. Lots of 'importers' do this and Im guessing a large part of SARS job is reassessing bulk shipments marked with insanely low values.

 

The next best and biggest trick is to get the goods sent and marked as 'used' or second-hand. This especially applies to clothing..

By law you cannot charge VAT or duty on second-hand goods.

 

Wanna buy some expensive shoes overseas? Get them sent to a friend and have them unpackage them and repost. They're secondhand! Your friend opened them! You will pay R25 to collect from the post office, promise.

 

The biggest trick is if you DONT have a friend overseas and it has to come straight from the supplier.. Too bad, you pay.

Edited December 29, 2010 by xdoomx

[LazyTrailRider]

xdoomx, people ask questions about duties and values related to CRC imports all the time around here, it's a well-covered topic. You mention a few good tricks, but that's not really my intention here. Customs knows CRC very well (the main assessor at Cape Mail explained this to me) and this thread was started with a very specific CRC issue in mind: a perfectly legit, factual discount not having been reflected on the invoice because of an admin mistake. CRC has since rectified this by sending me an invoice reflecting the actual value I paid (meaning, what was charged to my credit card).

 

After speaking to the assessor and showing him the Parcelforce value indicator and credit card charge, he reviewed the info and changed the VAT calculation to the new value, so all's well... He also told me that it's caused a couple of headaches for him, with a few people having paid the incorrect value and then realising afterwards, so he was fully aware of the 10% sale they had. I don't think it would be possible to pull the wool over their eyes; and I wouldn't want to do that anyway!