nigelhicks

Slip n slide is the word for sure! ... that mud is similar clay to PMB - so its just a grease-fest ... with 80% humidity! ... NICE

Or scream at them when they not doing well! - remember one XCO race the one little girl came over the line in tears and was just getting an ear bashing from dad ... I was like WTF! ... am I at a Motocross race?

@ Goya-Goya HMMM interesting comments and views - Rebuttal! Technical Skills... some people need them to make up for the fact that they are not a true athlete... for someone to take 5 seconds on anyone in less than 200metres of non-technical racing means they weren't in it to start with! - I think you are forgetting the fact of the matter that XCO (the topic of discussion here - NOT XCM) is designed to test BOTH technical as well as physical ability. Your comment basically says that unless you can cut it in a flat out road sprint against Lance on steroids ... you are not an athlete - so therefore you are saying that as Minnaar and clan only race downhill they are not athletes ... HMMMM ... did you see his Cape Epic and Sani2 C results in years past??? Hiding behind the fact that you can do "technical" stuff because you are not proficient enough to compete does not make you podium worthy. .... :eek: ... OK ... again I think these comments are a bit miss leading ... You say that many XC riders hide behind the fact that they are good in technical and suck at fitness - however in almost ALL XCO events technical sections make up only 20% of the track with lung busting climbs comprising 50% of the track ... OK .. that technical stuff really makes a difference so you dont need to be fit for the remaining 80% .. Roadies are real athletes... they don't hide behind anything... its just you and your body... not "technical" sections to rest... just hardcore nuts-against-the-glass... nowhere to hide! ... No where to hide??? Im sorry .. but you dont see any rider in ANY road race sitting on the front of the pack pulling the pelaton for 200km straight ... The ONLY instance a Roadie is "Not hiding behind anything" is in an individual time trial event. So if you think about it - the Individual timetrial for this years Tour De France is 54km - but the entire race is 3656Km (before ratifiaction - but close enough) ... so that means that the "NO WHERE TO HIDE" part of this epic road race is actually 1.5% (rounded up) of the race ... The rest of the time the riders can rest nicely in the peleton with their teams helping them during attacks etc and getting a nice draft from the rider in front ... HMMMM ... not saying they not immensely fit (and sometimes on juice) ... but HMMMM .... hahahaha Just pulling the piss dude - any world level pro demands respect - but at the level we are talking of and the discipline - my previous post stands true

Firstly welcome to the Hub ... hope you enjoy the banter. Firstly let me just argue with Nolipoli quickly .... then i will discuss what we do at World Cups vs Nationals and then Provincials here in KZN. What the vision is and why its done. I disagree - especially at a Provincial level - this is your base for new riders to progress so the time penalties need to be just great enough to penalise a rider to the point that they loose a bit but do not feel the absolute need to take the A-line to save time - If this is the case then you fall into a situation like at Masters Worlds XC last year when okes were ending themselves over something that was reserved for proper skilled riders - also it needs to be said that this is also a South African rider EGO issue - and we ALL need to stop thinking we are better than we are and know our limits - but the crux is ......... a B - or C line at Provincial or even National should not put you out of contention for a podium! (a win maybe - but a podium .. NO) -------------------------------- Right on to what we do. There are a number of issues to keep in mind 1. Level of event - Regional vs Nationals vs International Regional - at a regional event this is the breading ground for new riders to test their wits and skills on XCO and DH courses - you need to have the tracks testing enough, but not too harsh - so that it can cater for all riders skill and strengths - In this regard B - and C- lines are a MUST - In XC - Nick Floros' magic number is about 10 seconds for a B -line and 15 sec for a C- line if necessary. In DH - I use (dependant on track length) a 2 to 3 second penalty for a B-line. Basically in both instances this means that you loose a bit - but if you are good elsewhere on the track you can still be in the game - also it helps froma safety aspect with new riders not being pushed to try stuff that is out of their league. Also it opens the books a bit more whereby a rider can take one section fast cant just do that every lap etc and win because of it ... you need to be strong over the entire track. NATIONALS At this level you have generally raced for a bit and have some knowledge of whats happening. HOWEVER - B- and C-lines are still necessary as the tracks intensity has increased at this level with either more technical sections or jumps or whatever - in this instance alternate lines need to be added for riders suce as the Ladies and sprogs and sub-vets, vets and masters, some of whom may not be comfortable taking some of the harder lines. Again - there is NO SHAME in taking a b-line ... The time gaps at this level are also set similar to that of the provincials with 10 to 15 sec on XC and 3 to 5 sec on DH ... But again it is a safety aspect through and through. INTERNATIONAL Even at this level you need alternative lines. We saw at the world cup this year - some of the ladies in both the XC and DH utilising B-lines around the Treehouse rock garden in the XC and Dr Evil and Jugs Big one on the DH ... So even at a level where you have riders who have gained enough points to enter a World Cup - some may not be comfortable with a section. Also B- and C-lines assist in XC when if there has been a crash in one line then riders can use other lines to pass. Also in the wet A-lines through rock gardens may be trecherous and therefore the UCI actually insist on the insertion of alternative lines in case of weather issues. Hope this makes it clear. REMEMBER THERE IS NO SHAME IN TAKING A B-LINE - it will be faster than crashing on something on the A-Line that you are not comfortable with. Cheers Nige

Yeah i saw that too.... I spoke to the UCI Tech Delegate about it during our world cup ... and he says its very similar - just more closed in in the jungle ... Lots of high speed - but also lots of roots down below ... What im interested in is the Riders feedback on the shuttle system as they have to use 4x4's to get up the hill.. Also I though they were going to go from the top of the mountain near the cable car - but they actually start on the lower peak at 360m above sea level - with the finish at 33m so less elevation drop than PMB. I would think the track is like 2km long like Claudio says - so it definitely has sustained gradient ... Will be interesting to see what the riders think. I for one think its cool - nice mix of everything. I can see Warner absolutely CR@PPING himself all week - he is such a scaredy cat ... here he was convinced there were black mambas under every leaf next to the track hahaha. So there he wont want to come out of his room. hahahaha

Just worked out Claudios course time - 4:27 ... WOW thats a LONG track time Look at that vs Micks time in the dry - 3:32 ... EISH - thats going to be tough in the mud

and so the hating on Pink Bike begins ... Downhillers are such Dic.s rideRB (2 mins ago) Seems even less proper DH track compared to Pietermaritzburg. I expect many enduro bikes.

hmmm... Micks run in the dry was fast - in the wet that tracks going to be a challenge ... 2 x 10 second uphill sprints ... Then a 30 second flat sprint to the end ... (at Claudio's pace) . .. Rocks look cool as does the Cyclone ... Bottom section ... not so sure doesnt seem to have too much gradient - but then again videos NEVER do it justice as i know ALL to well.

http://www.redbull.com/za/en/bike/stories/1331646985005/cairns-pov-claudio

its called a "dirt nap"

DH Track route for Sunday very trail-bike friendly

some other pics

their main rock garden http://flowmountainbike.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/TTNQ_Smithfeild_98-710x473.jpg

hahahaha Cairns is cool - but it is also getting torn a new one by the keyboard jockeys. Its similar to here with flow rather than tons of tech. There are 2 short uphill sections so the UCI told me - but you come into them so fast that you just roll through it I think its pretty cool Will be interesting to see what the teams think of the logistics behind the event as their shuttle is by 4x4 with trailers (similar to us) but if it rains it is very difficult to get up the hill on the uplift. There is a gondola near there but they cant use it as it doesnt stop in the correct spots ... So i think it will be an interesting round

wow peach ... after being a Rabbit for the World cup last weekend the worlds doors really have opened up for you.. good man ... You can allways come down to KZN and show everyone your trials move off Wagon Wheel Wobbly ... 180 to nose pick off a 5foot drop ... Even Thomas Slavik (World 4x champ) was impressed

sorry not sure why this did 2 - admin - please delete this thread. Thanks

As the heading says what to get.... Will be looking for 2 ... 1 for me and one for the father in law as he is also ready for an upgrade... So to start - Santa Cruz Bronson - AWESOME - But too much cash and some of our mates have them already... So .... what about ... Cannondale Jekyll 27.5 OR Scott Genius LT OR Yeti SB 75 OR 2014 GT Force OR do we wait for the new Sanction?? THEN - the holy grail - BUT you can only get it in like August YT Capra WHAT ARE YOUR GUYS THOUGHTS????

1. - yes - but the venues are small and often have not had big event experience. 2. - no the crowds dont travel - thats why many of the Europ Wprld Cups only have 4000 spectators over a weekend - still costs lots in Europe to go and watch - even with good public transport etc 3. - Again not always the case - Fort Bill is different as this always draws the crowds as the venue area (Park) is so great - they are 4 hours by train from Glasgow and 9 hours by car from London! ... they are in the arseend of nowhere but still manage to draw teh crowds because of their great advertising campaigns 4. - Yes - due to a crap advertising campaign IMO 5. - any of the flights are bad no matter where you go in the world - they all take their toll. Thats why the trams want a centralised "World Cup" 6. - no not always cheaper - remember that in Europe and the USA the teams have their huge pantecknicon rigs that have sleeping quarters etc and all their tools etc. Remote destinations mean they have to bring everything with them and this costs an IMMENSE amount of cash - in europe or the USA on the otherhand the mechanics drive the vans from venue to venue while the riders fly - this again saves cash as they have no handling fees for luggage as it is all on the trucks.

when all the dust has settled, I am wanting to propose to Nigel a question If you had a choice to design a world cup course anywhere in the country, where would you do it?. - If it had to be in SA - probably Stelenbosch area But in all honesty i dont think SA has the elevation to host a true DH event - XC yes - as this can be done almost anywhere - but DH ... no I am not 100% familiar with whats available in Cape town, but from what I understand the ones for nationals this year is too short? - Track has to be the following: XC - 4 to 5km lap - total race time of 1:30min DH - Course length 1500m to 3500m Duration of the event 2 to 5min Most of our tracks are too short - need an average elevation drop of ~400 to 600m Also, you have to take logistics into account - it has to be a near a reasonably major centre. For example, I think you could bang a much better XC and DH course together in Karkloof - but its simply too far away from general popular to attract uniformed passer by's - NO - this is incorrect. Many of the venues are 2 hours or so away from major hubs ... the biggest logistical issue is if the event is a double or triple event or just a single. If its a single its no issue - but if its a 2 or 3 event then the venue needs to be able to cater for ALL the events in one spot. So Karkloof would not work as the DH would be way seperate from the XC - also the big trails at karkloof are at min 5km away from the Club in one direction (remember that the XC is max 5km long - and needs proper climbing in it). So Karkloof (although having cool trails would be a terrible venue as the courses would be too far removed from the event venue. That is why Ski resorts work well as everything can be centralised around a race village It has to have the drop and the overall distance - Yes - see above It has to have a place to have a race village - Yes - see above - this is KEY! It has to have space to be able to build a XC course - Yes and no - can be really compact course that actually doesnt take up too much area It has to have sufficient network coverage (hence the need to be close to a reasonably big centre) - Yes and no - the event organisers often bring in their own upload links and facilities with dedicated satellite feeds as the reception in the mountains of Europe is often not the best.

ok so to define the beers issues etc. Spectator numbers have steadily decreased every year we have had the event ... 2009 and 2011 we had over 20000 spectators over the weekend. This year was about 8000 for the 2 days (BUT - at many world cups if you have 4000 over a weekend thats good going - so we werent too bad - but its just that people have been last year so dont think it worth it the next year) The Beer - the beer garden had an issue with the liquor act so that put paid to the beer on site. The same vendor had had stands at the tables the past 2 years and he said that it wasnt worth his while to have them again as he didnt make any money off them. We had previously offered a shuttle sevice to the tables in years gone by but it ended up being a logistical nightmare and okes complained about paying R15 to be taken up to the tabletops. The advertising in my mind has always been shoddy since the first one - but this year was exceptionally bad. But again with all the voting posters up on lamp poles the moment no one would read a banner on a pole anyway. So it is not finalised but it appears that DH is no longer in PMB - we may get the world cup again sometime but there are lots of speculations so lets wait and see what happens. Basically the Teams are saying its too expensive to have 2 "exotic" destinations in one year - so with Cairns having Worlds in 2017 - they would rather go there and build up to that like they did here. In my mind this is a good idea as a couple of years quiescence may stimulate spectator numbers again if we get it back. But we also have marathon worlds and the potential of BMX world cup again? So lets see what Alec has up his sleeve

pros - top section is way better - will keep the trail bikes off ... a couple of racers and the uci Cons - not flowy enough

wait for Claudio's course preview that should be out tomorrow - sh..t that guy is insane I took him up this evening for it - came through the first rocks pinned - smashed a rock - (we thought he had punctured) ... then takes the next corner nearly bins it .... He said he overjumped every jump as he was too scared of casing them ... He even said it was friking wild ... so that should be a hoot to watch

NO DEFINITELY NOT! - sorry track is closed and will be detaping on sunday - so definitely NO

hey all - hi from the man with the 14hour a day job ... hahaha The course preview that Tiaan did is REALLY REALLY inaccurate from about 3:50 to 4:15 as he takes the old Worlds Line and not the new lines ... so thats changed Also the entry into Cloud 9 is now straight with 3 main line options Feedback from Course walk today had both pros and cons - so lets see what storm comes up on the WWW later HAHAHAHA - I was taping track at the top when Mitch walked down - so i told him i had renamed the top of the track after him - "Wagon Wheel Wobbly" ... he laughed so hard - took pictures under the sign too hahahah classic

for those of you who cant make it the event in person here are the broadcast times on Supersport