covie Posted May 8, 2012 Share Marketing K@K!!! All this talk about having too low tire pressure and all. HOGWASH!! the big reason for going big wheels is to get an even lower tire pressure. So do the math, the lower the tire pressure the more the sidewalls will flex, period! I got all the new bits, tapered head tube, through axle, and what ever else. All a lot of cods wallop I say. Bottom line, you cannot take certain components out of a closed loop and say this or that is better XYZ. You have to consider the closed loop in it's entirety. The rest is marketing hype period! Another example is the "....." from Fulcrum Wheels with 2:1 spoke lacing. WTF! More spokes, heavier wheels, and why? is the drive side and/or the braking side not attached to the hub which will evenly distribute the force across the hub's width. Or do the "new through axles" make the hubs weaker so that there is now a twist some where??? What a load of..................... Highly entertaining to say the least, Im sure you can backup these statements with your miriad of engineering degrees and real life tests as well as mathematical evidence? How much is the bet you have never tried a thru axle or a 29'er for that matter..... BTW 29'ers have absolutly nothing to do with lower tyre pressures as tire pressures are dictated by your weight and not the diameter of your wheel. sheeeez........ No more words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covie Posted May 8, 2012 Share Also wondering if all DH and AM peeps are going to realize this truth and move over to quick release since they have seen no benefit out of having a rigid wheelset and fork? fact the design on mtb's concentrate on rigidty first then weight, hence carbon being introduced into the mix, or is carbon not rigid and just light weight, please do tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicky DQ Posted May 9, 2012 Share Highly entertaining to say the least, Im sure you can backup these statements with your miriad of engineering degrees and real life tests as well as mathematical evidence? How much is the bet you have never tried a thru axle or a 29'er for that matter..... BTW 29'ers have absolutly nothing to do with lower tyre pressures as tire pressures are dictated by your weight and not the diameter of your wheel. sheeeez........ No more words. Sorry to say I HAVE the new through axle and 29" tires. AND even at 4 bar tire pressure you can grab hold of the tire with your hand and move it between .5 and 1 inch side to side. I do not need any degrees or what what to see what is in fact happening where the rubber hits the road. Now drop the pressure to 1.7 bar and see what happens. So math/engineering degree et al is not needed. What it is is what it is!Unless you into marketing the ............... new way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covie Posted May 9, 2012 Share Sorry to say I HAVE the new through axle and 29" tires. AND even at 4 bar tire pressure you can grab hold of the tire with your hand and move it between .5 and 1 inch side to side. I do not need any degrees or what what to see what is in fact happening where the rubber hits the road. Now drop the pressure to 1.7 bar and see what happens. So math/engineering degree et al is not needed. What it is is what it is!Unless you into marketing the ............... new way. Dont know what bike you have mate but i would go return it. Thru axle on rough trails makes the world of differnce, gives pinpoint acuracy, where you point it it goes. And i am confused what does tyre pressure have to do with axle play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covie Posted May 9, 2012 Share Theres a very valid reason why DH and AM rigs have incorportated for thruaxle for years, And I for one is glad they are bringing it into the XC/Trail world, as not all of us sit on dirt roads all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sometime Posted May 9, 2012 Share BTW 29'ers have absolutly nothing to do with lower tyre pressures as tire pressures are dictated by your weight and not the diameter of your wheel. So there's no difference in a 100kg rider riding a bike with 9" wheels pumped to 2 bar or 29" wheels pumped to 2 bar? i.e. both tyre size will be equally capable of holding the riders weight? Edited May 9, 2012 by sometime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covie Posted May 9, 2012 Share So there's no difference in a 100kg rider riding a bike with 9" wheels pumped to 2 bar or 29" wheels pumped to 2 bar? i.e. both tyre size will be equally capable of holding the riders weight? 29'er and 26 tyres are constructed in exactly the same way, in other words if you can run a 26" @ 1.8 bar without it folding in on itself, you will use the exact same tyre pressures on the same type of tyre on a 29'er. The advantage of the 29'er comes with having a bit more rubber on the ground and the bigger wheel diameter makes it easier to clear obstacles that will catch out a 26" wheel. like rocks and ruts. Edited May 9, 2012 by covie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sometime Posted May 9, 2012 Share 29'er and 26 tyres are constructed in exactly the same way, in other words if you can run a 26" @ 1.8 bar without it folding in on itself, you will use the exact same tyre pressures on the same type of tyre on a 29'er. The advantage of the 29'er comes with having a bit more rubber on the ground and the bigger wheel diameter makes it easier to clear obstacles that will catch out a 26" wheel. like rocks and ruts. You haven't answered my question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockCoach Posted May 9, 2012 Share Ride some rough trails with QR and thru axle back to back and you will find that the maxle really does work to keep the front end stiff. I can feel a major difference between the two*. With QR under hard braking you can see the fork lowers flexing which is minimal just by changing to thru axle. However if you are a lightweight, non aggressive marathon rider then you probably won't be able to tell the diffs. * and I do possess some engineering qualifications too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicky DQ Posted May 9, 2012 Share Dont know what bike you have mate but i would go return it. Thru axle on rough trails makes the world of differnce, gives pinpoint acuracy, where you point it it goes. And i am confused what does tyre pressure have to do with axle play? OK stupid me...What has tire pressure to do with the debate??? I am doff so here is the way I see it.1. You have a piece of steel (oops that also had flex, but let's ignore this for now, in the bigger scheme of things)2. You put it vertically against the ground and apply side/vertical/etc. etc. forces to it. NOT MUCH HAPPENS! Unless the forces are quite large. 1.1 You take the sale piece of steel now you attach 3" of rubber (forget that it is thin rubber inflated with air.)2.2 You apply the sames side/vertical/etc. etc. forces to it and it moves. The amount it moves can/could/would/should also be compounded by the flex/etc of the steel, but what where the real "movement" is happening is in the rubber. Simple enough for you? The more the rubber moves (i.e. the lower the tire inflation, the softer the tire sidewall is the more the movement is period) Your argument could ring true IF most people were changing from 29" QR to 29" through axle, and then only just, but...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicky DQ Posted May 9, 2012 Share Remember you can still prove 1 = 0 and visa versa. and as they say in Afrikaans "papier is geduldig, jy kan enige k@k daarop skryf" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covie Posted May 9, 2012 Share OK stupid me...What has tire pressure to do with the debate??? I am doff so here is the way I see it.1. You have a piece of steel (oops that also had flex, but let's ignore this for now, in the bigger scheme of things)2. You put it vertically against the ground and apply side/vertical/etc. etc. forces to it. NOT MUCH HAPPENS! Unless the forces are quite large. 1.1 You take the sale piece of steel now you attach 3" of rubber (forget that it is thin rubber inflated with air.)2.2 You apply the sames side/vertical/etc. etc. forces to it and it moves. The amount it moves can/could/would/should also be compounded by the flex/etc of the steel, but what where the real "movement" is happening is in the rubber. Simple enough for you? The more the rubber moves (i.e. the lower the tire inflation, the softer the tire sidewall is the more the movement is period) Your argument could ring true IF most people were changing from 29" QR to 29" through axle, and then only just, but...... well yeah thats admittance to sutpidty right there mate, thats rubber flex and has nothing to do with your wheelset you hubs or your rims. I suggest you go do some more research and then we can continue this debate, I really cant deal with this type of idiocracy when I am sober. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covie Posted May 9, 2012 Share Ride some rough trails with QR and thru axle back to back and you will find that the maxle really does work to keep the front end stiff. I can feel a major difference between the two*. With QR under hard braking you can see the fork lowers flexing which is minimal just by changing to thru axle. However if you are a lightweight, non aggressive marathon rider then you probably won't be able to tell the diffs. * and I do possess some engineering qualifications too See now there sense be spoken lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covie Posted May 9, 2012 Share You haven't answered my question? The answer to your question is yes, since it will have the same sidewall consturction, with the same amount of PSI to leverage the weight there will be no difference whatsover, there will be a difference on the amount of rubber contact on the ground though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicky DQ Posted May 9, 2012 Share well yeah thats admittance to sutpidty right there mate, thats rubber flex and has nothing to do with your wheelset you hubs or your rims. I suggest you go do some more research and then we can continue this debate, I really cant deal with this type of idiocracy when I am sober.Sorry that is where I miss the point, stupid me! the ground interacts with the rubber that is attached to this super rigid wheel set, through axle, tapered head tube etc. the marketing people will tell you how stiff everything is now, as long as you disregard the rubber. But in the real world that I ride in I can't. So save me 1mm flex at a cost of 20g and X K ZAR in the metal bits and give me an additional 1" flex in the rubber and I am going to notice it. If you can so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covie Posted May 9, 2012 Share Sorry that is where I miss the point, stupid me! the ground interacts with the rubber that is attached to this super rigid wheel set, through axle, tapered head tube etc. the marketing people will tell you how stiff everything is now, as long as you disregard the rubber. But in the real world that I ride in I can't. So save me 1mm flex at a cost of 20g and X K ZAR in the metal bits and give me an additional 1" flex in the rubber and I am going to notice it. If you can so be it. Well yeah you are totally missing the point about what the function and advantages of thruaxle over QR is. So please rather dont comment till you do a little more homework. Really. Not trying to be mean here, but your totally off base here. If you have tyre flex you dont like pump your tyres to the damn correct pressures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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