Hi-Tech Old School

[TitusTi]

That is awesome! When is he gonna make frames? I want a custom 29'er in steel, any chance of twisting his arm?

[R2S2]

Here's another take on the Spirit tubeset:

 

 

Though I still think your black frame rocks, it is interesting to note that the material is rust proof, so it needs not be painted.

 

As soon as your framebuilder is ready, I want one!

[TitusTi]

Oooh, pick me, pick me!

[R2S2]

So Sir Fred, who's your builder?

[Sir Fed]

He's still in hiding but I will drag him out. If you are serious about one of those carbon-steel frames then we must talk because that was on my wish list too. The only problem was the cost of the carve rear end and fork (there are much cheaper alternatives) and I dont really need a road bike at this point.

[R2S2]

Aaaah, BUT...

 

Columbus has price breakpoints for 1, 5 and 10+ frames respectively, so if we could get 5 or 10 or even more people to join in, we could potentially get those carbon bits for not much more than what your steel frame cost!

 

OK, so I don't exactly need a frame right now for myself, but it really is something worth considering!

 

So, go on then, show your builder the light!

[Razzo]

The builder (me) has seen the light, and is trying to run the other way!

Thanks for all the compliments! Makes the blood, sweat and swears almost seem worthwhile.

[R2S2]

Well Razzo, happy to meet you then!

Tell me more though - did jou purpose build a jig for this one frame, or do you have a proper frame jig?  What did you use to get the geometry right?  Did you clone an existing geometry, or is it a completely fresh design?

If you don't want to disclose too much publicly, please feel free to PM me!

[Razzo]

Hi there.
I don't have a bought frame jig, but did make bits and pieces to build a jig for the frame (and fork), using a piece of flat, straight channel iron, that gets things in line. I always do a full size drawing to have good point of reference. Very very very accurate cutting /filing of tubes (mitre and length) is used to get the angles right. This is one of the most important aspects. Plenty of back and forth to the drawing to make sure no errors creep in. Everything is done by hand, no mills or lathes which is why it takes so bloody long! All this is followed by careful brazing to make sure things are not pulled off center. If you cant braze straight and compensate for slight inaccuracies in tubes, you are SCREWED!

 

The geometry matches the Scott Plasma L/56 exactly, which is what Sir Fed wanted. We found subsequently that the seat tube could be a bit steeper, but will incorporate that into the next frame, which will be more of a "made to measure" frame.

[Sir Fed]

Ok, some performance figures for those interested.

 

Once a week I do a 20km TT as part of my training. 3 weeks ago I did the last one on my old bike (2yr old alu frame) and the last two were done on the new bike. At first I was suprised by the numbers so I figured that I would wait until this week to see if it was just the excitement of a new bike or an actual improvement.

 

Given that the weather conditions are more or less the same (the wind always blows on TT day!) and the only other variable is the fact that my legs are considerably more fatigued over the last 3 weeks due to a heavy training block, I am happy to report that the new bike was on average 2min faster. It is also worth noting that all these TT's were carried out at over 40km/h which makes the 2min even more valuable.

 

Power transfer to the back wheel has improved and despite being more rigid, it is not uncomfortable, as I discovered on Sunday's 150km ride. If you are looking for a bike with great feel and performance then I can serously suggest one of these.

[Sir Fed]

The geometry matches the Scott Plasma L/56 exactly, which is what Sir Fed wanted. [/quote']

 

Not exactly, we made a few tweaks to the length of the seat tube (Razzo's proprietary design) and shortened the head tube by 23mm to accomodate an external headset but its as close as you will get.

 

The seat tube could definitely go to 77 or 78 degrees but that might be too extreme for the roadies out there, especially with those daft UCI rules that you have to adhere too.

[Razzo]

100%. We needed to make a few changes to the HT to get the stem to the same height as the carbon frame with Integrated headset and because the carbon frame has a bike specific aero seatpost, we wanted to cover as much of the round seat post as possible with aero tube. Turned out to be about 7cm of round seatpost exposed and this was needed to attach the bottle mount any way, so that the bottles sit out of the wind behind Fed ass. Seems to be working based on the improvements made on the TT.

[R2S2]

Razzo,

 

I have access to mills, lathes, and an military-spec tig welder, as well as a very nifty little spreadsheet that does frame design based on rider parameters (PM me if you want it!)

 

All I need is someone who has jigged up a frame before, and a couple of other people interested so that we can bring costs down.  Sure, I don't need a new bike, but damn I want one!

 

Fred,

 

Thanx for the feedback on ride quality.  You will most certaily have better power transfer from steel, as it "stores" flexing in the same manner as a spring does, releasing it in a delayed manner with very little loss.  This is something aluminium simply cannot do!

 

I'm soooooooooo jealous!

[Sir Fed]

There you go Razzo, build your own jig (you have already designed the thing) and forget about these local guys who can't deliver.

 

Ok, so everyone else out there, start placing your orders.

[Razzo]

R2S2 and I are gonna meet up soon and take it from there. Watch this space people! Sweet steel is headed your way!

[R2S2]

Amen to that!