What was thread about? - can't remember!

[linnega]

 

 

Look' date=' the bottom line is that it is irrational to believe in something for which there is no scientific or evidentiary proof.

 

It is not a question of knowing whether a god exists or believing whether a god exists. The question you must ask is whether there is any evidence of a god's existence. Clearly there isn't.

[/quote']

Logical reasoning in fact tells me that it is ludicrous to believe that there is no higher power.  The chances of the million of circumstances that had to come together to create this world and universe are too great to honestly believe there is no higher power.  The is no scientific or evidentiary proof about a lot of things that involve creation.

 

All due respect, but your 'logical reasoning' is fatally flawed. There is plenty of evidence to explain the origin of life on earth and the earth itself. To simply claim that a god created it all in six days, simply because some book / fable tells you so is illogical and unscientific.

 

Again I note that you have not provided any evidence of a god's existence.

Plenty of theories, yes.  None of them are conclusive.  I cannot provide evidence of God's existence, just as you cannot provide evidence of how we came to be. 

 

That wasn't the point of the discussion though.  The issue was really that ChrisH and yourself imply that rational thought and religion are mutually exclusive, which I have pointed out is ridiculous.  Simply because you choose to accept other theories on man's existence or even that popular opinion leans a certain way does not make your theory right or other's ridiculous.

linnega2008-05-11 03:30:09

[Pantani]

This argument of faith, existence and creation has nothing to do with whether or not I offended the sensibilities of Christians...

[porky]

This argument of faith' date=' existence and creation has nothing to do with whether or not I offended the sensibilities of Christians... [/quote']

 

 - I didnt see the post, but I dont get offended that easy.!

[Sidekick Racer]

oh goodness....

[ChrisH]

 

That wasn't the point of the discussion though.  The issue was really that ChrisH and yourself imply that rational thought and religion are mutually exclusive' date=' which I have pointed out is ridiculous. 

[/quote']

 

Again, you're equating the two positions as if they are of equal value. This is not valid. The pointless, proofless system that is faith is in no way similar to the fact based stand that I am taking. I believe that Faith is ignorance dressed up in pretty clothes. It's intellectual surrender.

 

There are hundreds of thousands of evangelicals out there preaching their message of blind faith and ignorance, and they've managed to generate a situation in the states where atheists are afraid of saying what they believe. It's about time that rationalism had someone speaking up for it.

 

 Simply because you choose to accept other theories on man's existence or even that popular opinion leans a certain way does not make your theory right or other's ridiculous.

 

The 'other theory' that I accept is at least a proper theory with some science to back it up. Faith is not really a theory at all is it? It is speculation and supposition. Two entirely different things .

 

[linnega]

Anything with the absence of absolute proof requires supposition and an acceptance of things that cannot be explained.  So I get what you are saying, I'm just saying that its garbage.

[Witrot]

Seems we going to change this threads name more than the nr of posts on the thread...

[goofs]

Let it go now, like a little kid throwing his toys out a cot.

[jmaccelari]

 

 

This thread has gone quiet, so in an attempt to start it up again for the massive

amusement value it has provided, I state the following:

 

"You are all figments of my imagination and thus I don't give a rat's bum about

ANY of your opinions."

 

(Aggrieved responses eagerly anticipated...)

 

jmaccelari2008-05-12 00:34:08

[Tumbleweed]

"You are all figments of my imagination and thus I don't give a rat's bum about

you are a rat's bum!

[cyclenut]

I challenge every hubber to read the book "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins or peruse his website www.richarddawkins.net
and then return to the hub and debate religion.

Deal?

 

Read this instead ...

 

Basic

Instructions

Before

Leaving

Earth

[bob_the_builder]

 

Faith is the denial of reason

Paradox defined.

 

 

Sums up the UCI perfectly... To bring this thread back to Pantani's original comment, wot started all the fuss...

 

[JasonW]

I challenge every hubber to read the book "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins or peruse his website www.richarddawkins.net
and then return to the hub and debate religion.

Deal?

 

Read this instead ...

 

Basic

Instructions

Before

Leaving

Earth

 

Tell NASA

[cyclenut]

"For those who believe no proof is necessary!

For those who don't... no amount will suffice!!!"

 

' date=' but I'll make do with a little!

[/quote']

 

How about this ...

 

Creation - there was no big bang, but a big God.

 

Universe ...

Defn: from two words: Uni + Verse

Defn: Uni: single

Defn: Verse: sentence ...

 

Genesis: And God Said "Let there be ....... "

[bruce]

"You are all figments of my imagination and thus I don't give a rat's bum about
ANY of your opinions."

(Aggrieved responses eagerly anticipated...)

 

Maybe rat's bums are a figment of your imagination, and duct tape too, oh, sorry, wrong thread

[cyclenut]

 

  if you stating categorically that there is no God then that is statement of fact and you need to provide reason.  You can't simply hide behind the fact that you statement alludes to an absence of something. 

Can you not see your hypocrisy? You complain about people being told what to think and believe' date=' and yet you are the one insisting there is no God and anyone who believe in God lacks the power to reason.  You have not provided a reasoned argument to back up your faith.

[/quote']

 No. I am not insisting that everyone believe that there is no God, I am saying that I personally don't believe in God. You absolutely have the right to believe in whatever you  want and to argue that belief.

 

Not questioning, not asking for evidence, makes you susceptible to the influence of those with a vested interest (money/power) in whatever your faith is based upon. Look at the suicide bombers in the Middle East blowing themselves up seemingly every other day, look at the 'God hates Homosexuals' bunch. Look at Scientologists (aliens for goodness sake).

 

Their faith is no doubt unshakeable, and we are asked to respect it as such even though it's clearly insane. I'm fully aware that they are extreme examples but potentially exposing yourself to such influence can't be healthy. If people need comfort, surely there are other sources than just effectively saying to yourself 'Everything is fine because I said so'.

I believe that the occasional warm fuzzy feeling that people profess to get when they indulge in their group ignorance is not worth all the hate, death and torture that results from faith.

 

The common argument is that their faith is based on the rules of their religion. EG The Bible. But that's not the same as faith, is it? That's the set of instructions for a belief structure that MUST be obeyed, and as such, is rubbish. An individual's faith doesn't need a set of books to explain why it is unquestionably right. It just needs to comfort the person who has that faith, and for that purpose only I will agree that faith has a place in society. Having said that I don't believe that faith should confer on a person any more rights than those afforded to someone who believes in hypnotism or acupuncture as a comfort mechanism.

 

Things that render the existence of God/s highly unlikely.

No group of people who haven't met others have ever come up with the same God/s as another people.

The universe is entirely deterministic, there are no particles found that do not act according to the Laws of Physics. This, by definition, leaves no room for the supernatural.

Nothing bad happens to you if you don't believe, beyond things done by those who do.

Religious believers as a group have exactly the same susceptibility to disease and accident as non-believers, despite all those prayers

 

Either way, I'm sure a cliquey bunch of cyclists hashing the matter out over a couple of days on an interweb forum are not going to come to the conclusion that hundreds of generations of humans have failed to reach.

 

And girls can't do religion either. Except nuns. They're hot.

And the Vicar of Dibley.

 

I obey because I believe .... (not the other way around)

 

And as for the other short-sighted comments:

Things that render the existence of God/s highly unlikely.

No group of people who haven't met others have ever come up with the same God/s as another people.  Cyclenut says: Then you should come to my church... that's an official invitation

The universe is entirely deterministic, there are no particles found that do not act according to the Laws of Physics. This, by definition, leaves no room for the supernatural. Cyclenut says: see my comment on Creation and the origin of "Universe"

Nothing bad happens to you if you don't believe, beyond things done by those who do. Cyclenut says: Except an eternity in Hell

Religious believers as a group have exactly the same susceptibility to disease and accident as non-believers, despite all those prayers Cyclenut says: No where in the Bible does it say that Believing in Christ will mean an exclusion from suffering ....

cyclenut2008-05-12 00:57:10